"Cinavia" watermark protection

[SamuriHL]

But the major thing I said is that the non-BD software players such as VLC will never implement it. Media Center may never implement it if it never supports BD. So once the content is "jailbroken" from the BD using something like MakeMKV, it doesn't matter if that watermark is still there or not, it will play fine on software media players (maybe not software BD players). So who cares? Who is going to write it back to an expensive physical BD disc anyway? I hate to tell you this, but BD is a dying format even while it is still growing because the true final format is no physical disc at all and it is only a couple of years away.

That is EXACTLY correct and what I've said on other forums, as well. I plan on using MPC-HC + ffdshow to play MKV's make using MakeMKV for my backups. In that case, Cinavia isn't even on my radar. I suggest all HTPC users create a "plan b" playback setup, as well, as you have done. And I unfortunately agree with your BD assessment, as well. Once internet speeds make it feasible to stream the same quality as BD, it's game over for the format. It may die even before that with lesser quality. Netflix with 1080p + DD+ is already a reality on the PS3.

[skittle]

Devils advocate here, but if the ISP's get their way we may all have 100mbit connections, but with 100gb/month (more or less... doesnt really matter) data caps. Kind of puts a damper on the whole streaming alternative to physical media.

[SamuriHL]

True enough. Unless the streaming companies pay the ISP's for "special traffic" for their customers, in which case our streaming rates go up. In the end, we'll likely get the content through streaming, BUT, we'll all be paying for it. And, the streaming content will also still likely be Cinavia protected.

[setarip_old]

Here's a link to a reliable (from the publishers of DVDFab, etc.) current list of Blu-ray discs that contain "Cinavia" watermarking, as well as a list of known standalone players that contain "Cinavia" protection:

http://forum.dvdfab.com/showthread.php? ... #post46933

[setarip_old]

Here's a link to a reliable (from the publishers of DVDFab, etc.) current list of Blu-ray discs that contain "Cinavia" watermarking, as well as a list of known standalone players that contain "Cinavia" protection:

http://forum.dvdfab.com/showthread.php? ... #post46933

Note - Of late there's been a lot of activity regarding the hacking of the PS3. This will likely have the effect of , at least initially, clearing the way to circumvent the first iteration of "Cinavia" as it pertains to the PS3...

[setarip_old]

Based on information posted at the Doom9 Forums, regarding yesterday's release of "The Takers", it appears that "Cinavia" watermark protection has now found its way to DVDs.

Discussions regarding possible courses of action to take in order to overcome this protection concept appear to fall into two distinct categories:

1) Those who believe that efforts should be directed ONLY toward finding a method of safely eliminating the actual watermark, and

2) Those (Including me) who believe that, in addition to finding a method of safely eliminating the actual watermark, efforts should be directed at foiling each and every iteration of "Cinavia" that may be generated

[SamuriHL]

For MKV backups made with MakeMKV, we should be ok for now. The PS3 does not support such files and wouldn't be affected, and I'm not sure if the other couple of players that support Cinavia would actually support MKV files, either. I honestly don't know if they do or not. So for now, MakeMKV users aren't likely to be affected by Cinavia, but, for media streamers that support both MKV and licensed BD playback, the future could bring issues.

EDIT: Of COURSE if you're just backing up the structures with MakeMKV, and NOT converting them to MKV format, then you could definitely be affected by these new developments with Cinavia on DVD.

[setarip_old]

For clarification, in the context of the previous post by "SamuriHL", "backing up the structures" = making FULL disc Blu-ray backups...

[SamuriHL]

For clarification, in the context of the previous post by "SamuriHL", "backing up the structures" = making FULL disc Blu-ray backups...

Yes, that's correct. Sorry for not being more clear.

[setarip_old]

Yes, that's correct.

Yes - and that's why the clarification was posted... ;>}

[SamuriHL]

Yes, that's correct.

Yes - and that's why the clarification was posted... ;>}

Well, since we're in the clarification mood we should also point out that it also applies to full disc DVD backups now.

[setarip_old]

@samuriHL

Well, since we're in the clarification mood we should also point out that it also applies to full disc DVD backups now.

I believe you are mistaken.

Unless something has changed VERY recently, MakeMKV (due to a limitation of Matroska regarding menus) cannot make FULLY FUNCTIONAL full disc backups of DVDs (comprised .IFOs, .BUPs, .VOBs).

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... 44&start=0

On the other hand, MAKEMKV CAN make fully functional full disc backups of most Blu-ray discs (comprised primarily of a BDMV folder and its sub-folders and files contents).

[SamuriHL]

@samuriHL

Well, since we're in the clarification mood we should also point out that it also applies to full disc DVD backups now.

I believe you are mistaken.

Unless something has changed VERY recently, MakeMKV (due to a limitation of Matroska regarding menus) cannot make FULLY FUNCTIONAL full disc backups of DVDs (comprised .IFOs, .BUPs, .VOBs).

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... 44&start=0

On the other hand, MAKEMKV CAN make fully functional full disc backups of most Blu-ray discs (comprised primarily of a BDMV folder and its sub-folders and files contents).

I was unaware that MakeMKV couldn't make full disc backups of DVD's. Seems like a strange limitation when it's capable of doing full disc BD backups. Anyway, that being the case, then there's no need to worry about DVD's and Cinavia when using MakeMKV.

[setarip_old]

there's no need to worry about DVD's and Cinavia when using MakeMKV.

Time will tell...

[mangry]

there's no need to worry about DVD's and Cinavia when using MakeMKV.

Time will tell...

The Cinavia watermark isn't a data field, it is sound signal interleaved in the actual sound of the of material. There can be different kinds of 'flags' embedded, it could say this material is only for show in a theater - so if someone has pirated it in a cinema and wants to show it at home the machine would reject it. The mechanism is if the playback device sees there is a Cinavia then the film must be DRM protected, if the film is NOT DRM protected but has Cinavia then the player should not play the file, or stop.
Meaning if you made an MKV it wouldn't make a difference when playing it back on a device which implements Cinavia. Unless someone is able to counter phase the audio signal out of the sound you can't remove it (and that might very well ruin the sound for all but the most fanatical).