Why no full backup for DVDs?

[Rojma]

This is not a complain but more just curious. Why does full backup only exist for Blu-Ray? Why is there no full back up for DVDs?

[Woodstock]

DVD format has a number of ways to create a "backup"; you just need to copy the entire thing to an ISO file. "Just" copying will give the an encrypted file, but a number of players already include the DeCSS library, so it isn't a major issue.

For Bluray, it's not so simple. An encrypted ISO will lack things necessary to remove the encryption. And the tools that can copy DVDs directly run into the drive itself not allowing access without the decryption key.

So MakeMKV has a separate mode to do backups, with the option to remove the encryption at the same time.

[Chetwood]

Because DVDs have menus and MKVs do not?

[Rojma]

DVD format has a number of ways to create a "backup"; you just need to copy the entire thing to an ISO file. "Just" copying will give the an encrypted file, but a number of players already include the DeCSS library, so it isn't a major issue.

For Bluray, it's not so simple. An encrypted ISO will lack things necessary to remove the encryption. And the tools that can copy DVDs directly run into the drive itself not allowing access without the decryption key.

So MakeMKV has a separate mode to do backups, with the option to remove the encryption at the same time.

Thanks for the info. It was very informative. I was trying to use another program to make an ISO backup of one of my DVDs but it was not working. I believe it is one of these DVDs that has some bad sectors on it purposely. I know MakeMKV can sometimes get through making backups of problematic Blu-Rays so I was hoping to use it to make a full back of this particular problematic DVD. Oh well. Thanks again for the info.

[Rojma]

Because DVDs have menus and MKVs do not?

I was not making MKVs out of the DVD. I was looking to do a full backup of the DVD. MakeMKV has this ability for Blu-Rays (including Menus) but apparently it does not for DVDs.

[Woodstock]

In the past, there have been disks that rely on certain sectors being "bad", but that is usually when you're playing through the DVD menus. Rip the video to MKV files, the menu restrictions disappear.

Personally, I have no tolerance for such things. The reason to use "full backup" or ISO modes is the preserve extras. Extras to me are "once and done"; I rip them to MKV files, watch them, then delete them. I have yet to encounter an extra worth saving long-term. And I have never bought a disk "just for the extras".

And if you want to continue viewing the extras in a menu structure, you cannot compress the video, because that will break up the menus.

[Rojma]

The reason I was trying to do a full backup of the DVD was because I was then trying to use DVD Shrink to get rid of all menus and extras and just have the movie. I then burn this back to a DVD. This makes playing the movie much easier in my van's car entertainment center without having to worry about navigating through menus to get to the movie. The movie just plays when I put it into the DVD player. I got little ones who are not able to use remotes yet to navigate through menus and the controls at the front of the car do not allow navigation (even from passenger side). DVD shrink for some reason couldn't read the disk properly so I was trying to see about doing a full backup to my hard drive first and then seeing about using DVD shrink from there. I tried some other programs that create ISOs from the DVD but also had no luck there - they also had a hard time reading the disk. This was a brand new DVD that I bought from the store and is in pristine condition. The funny part is that I can make an MKV from it using MakeMKV, but that won't work in my van. I know there are other solutions to playing MKVs in car entertainment centers but nothing beats just removing a DVD from a case and sticking into the DVD player and it just playing.

[d00zah]

Plenty of FREE solutions for writing an .mkv, which you've already created, to DVD format. Try one?

https://www.google.com/search?q=free+convert+mkv+to+dvd

[Woodstock]

Ah. There is another way to do that, but it isn't as integrated as the DVD Shrink method. Rip the movie to an MKV file, then use DVD authoring software that supports MKV as input to create the DVD.

Personally, I'd be strongly tempted to make the car "USB-compatible" and play from USB, rather than DVDs. Much less fragile. A 128GB USB thumb drive can hold enough DVD-quality video for 24 hours of travel.

[Rojma]

Yes I have looked into using a USB flash drive which my car actually supports. There is just one problem - there is only one USB port in the car and we use Android Auto pretty heavily (mainly for Waze). In other words we can either have our phone plugged in for Android Auto or have the USB flash drive plugged in, but not both at the same time. Unfortunately the car also does not support plugging in a USB hub to solve the problem - it specifically gives you a message that USB hubs are not supported when you try to plug one in. There are a lot of bad design problems with this car when it comes to the entertainment center (fortunately the rest of the car is pretty good). We don't mind using the DVD solution I have come up with.

Regarding DVD authoring programs that converts an MKV back to DVD, I have looked into some programs but most seem to want to re-encode. I don't want it re-encoded - I want the original quality. I know its just for playing in a van and its only DVD but I am anal about quality and want to preserve the original quality. When using DVD Shrink I always make sure to tell it not to compress (keep 100% quality) and don't mind using dual-layer DVDs (which my van supports without issue). If I could find a program that takes the MKV and just spits it back to a DVD without re-encoding, then that would solve my problem.

[Rojma]

My other option would be a DVD Shrink type program but for Blu-Rays. I own the DVD/Blu-Ray combo packs so if needed I can rip the Blu-Ray instead, get rid of menus/extra content, and then burn back to a Blu-Ray. I just haven't found a program that is like DVD Shrink but for Blu-Rays where I can get rid of everything but the movie. My end goal is to insert the Blu-Ray into my car's Blu-Ray player so that it plays instantly (the player in my car is actually a Blu-Ray player and not just a DVD player). The screen in the car is not full HD so I don't care if it is DVD or Blu-Ray - I just care about ease of use without having to re-encode.

[Rojma]

Plenty of FREE solutions for writing an .mkv, which you've already created, to DVD format. Try one?

https://www.google.com/search?q=free+convert+mkv+to+dvd

The problem there is finding a program that doesn't include spyware, doesn't re-encode, and doesn't cost too much considering I am only having this problem with one or two DVDs. Many of the search results end up being glorified ads for some company's own software.

[Woodstock]

Wanting to re-encode probably means the raw video exceeds the capacity of a standard DVD.

When you play from USB, does it play MKV files? If so, you MIGHT be able to simply copy the MKV to the DVD, as a data disk, rather than a video disk. I used to have a car that would play regular CDs or MP3s on CDs.

My hobbyist nature would have me using a Raspberry Pi to provide the video, and tapping in to the video/audio circuits separate from the "infotainment system". Maybe even give it game capability.

[Rojma]

Wanting to re-encode probably means the raw video exceeds the capacity of a standard DVD.

When you play from USB, does it play MKV files? If so, you MIGHT be able to simply copy the MKV to the DVD, as a data disk, rather than a video disk. I used to have a car that would play regular CDs or MP3s on CDs.

My hobbyist nature would have me using a Raspberry Pi to provide the video, and tapping in to the video/audio circuits separate from the "infotainment system". Maybe even give it game capability.

I have found that most programs always want to re-encode regardless of the size. Remember I am going from DVD to DVD, not Blu-Ray to DVD, so in most instances it should fit on a dual-layer DVD without having to re-encode. I think they are doing this to make sure the video/audio is "compatible" without actually taking a look at the current format and realizing it already is compatible.

I did try the MKV on a data disk put that unfortunately did not work either - it does not look like my car's Blu-Ray player will recognize data disks. I even tried it in AVCHD format (I think that's the name) burned to a disk and that didn't work either.

Ultimately I am OK if I can't get it to work. As mentioned this has so far only affected three discs that I own. Kids have another 20+ movies they can watch instead (although unfortunately one of the ones I can't get to work is one of their favorites).

[Chetwood]

So, if you wan to strip the menus why do you need full-disc backup for DVDs? Have you tried ripping the main movie with MakeMKV for the DVD that does not work with DVD Shrink?