Forced subtitles

[leosantare]

Something is wrong, it won't let me attach an image again. What is the problem with this?!?

[DukeFleed]

Okay so with mkvtoolnix, I create a new mkv and if it's the way I want it, I can delete the old one, correct?

Yes.

Can you post some screen shots on what to do in mkvtoolnix for this particular title? I don't know how to use mkvtoolnix whatsoever.

There is no need, as you have seen it is quite intuitive.

I can't even download mkvtoolnix. I tried to but ended up installing PC app store on my PC. Every time I try to download mkvtoolnix, it wants to download the damn PC app store instead, nonsense. Please post a direct link.

I download and install Mkvtoolnix from an Arch Linux repository (EndeavourOS, the distribution I use, is a derivative of it), so I can't help you.

Again, for whatever reason, the forced subs for this mkv do not show up in mkvtoolnix or VLC as a track. Instead, the forced subs are displayed automatically. There is no way to turn them on/off. Essentially, I can remove all (4) sub tracks from this mkv and the forced sub will still be displayed by default. It's as if I can't remove them from the mkv. Do you understand?

I finally figured out why forced subtitles can't be turned off. In my 1200+ titles (DVD and Blu-ray) I've never had this happen, except maybe for Avatar, but I should watch it again. In practice, in your movie in question that I don't know, forced subtitles are hardcoded, they are embedded in the video, and they can't be turned off, they are always active, and you can't do anything about it.

So the only thing you can do for this movie is: load the .mkv file in Mkvtoolnix, select the only subtitle track (i.e. the main subtitles), and in the box on the right put NO to the default flag. Save the file.


In the future, for a .mkv file that has forced subtitles on a separate track, do this in Mkvtoolnix: for main subtitles set the default flag to NO, and for forced subtitles set the forced flag to YES.

[leosantare]

Okay, thank you. I think I'm 97% there.

Please confirm, for the main sub track that I want. (again, I will only have (1) main sub track for each mkv and don't want them to appear in VLC by default. I want to have to turn them on in VLC for them to appear)
default track flag YES/NO
track enabled flag YES/NO
forced display flag YES/NO

Please confirm, for the forced sub track that I want. (again, I will only have (1) forced sub track for each mkv, if available. I want them to be enabled by default)
default track flag YES/NO
track enabled flag YES/NO
forced display flag YES/NO

If you remember, originally, I selected all (8) English subtitles for 2012 in makemkv. Why do only (4) sub tracks show up in mkvtoolnix and VLC?

[DukeFleed]

Please confirm, for the main sub track that I want. (again, I will only have (1) main sub track for each mkv and don't want them to appear in VLC by default. I want to have to turn them on in VLC for them to appear)
default track flag YES/NO
track enabled flag YES/NO
forced display flag YES/NO

default track --> flag NO
track enabled --> flag YES
forced display --> flag NO

Please confirm, for the forced sub track that I want. (again, I will only have (1) forced sub track for each mkv, if available. I want them to be enabled by default)
default track flag YES/NO
track enabled flag YES/NO
forced display flag YES/NO

default track --> flag NO
track enabled --> flag YES
forced display --> flag YES

If you remember, originally, I selected all (8) English subtitles for 2012 in makemkv. Why do only (4) sub tracks show up in mkvtoolnix and VLC?

Because MakeMKV did not find the forced subtitles, and therefore did not save them in a separate track. And this is obvious because as I told you in the movie the forced subtitles are embedded in the video. And anyway, if they were on a separate track, there would have been only one, in a movie more than one forced subtitle track cannot be, so in the movie in question there would have been 5 subtitle tracks in total (1 forced, 1 main, the other 2 are probably comments, and 1 maybe main for the hearing impaired).

As I and others in this thread have told you, when you rip a disc, you don't know in advance what the forced subtitles are, so it's good practice to select all of them. But they may or may not be there.

[Mr. Red]

There are two different kinds of forced subtitles (if not burned in the video track) on a Blu-ray:

• a separate track for the forced subtitles
• embedded in the normal "full" subtitles with a forced flag on each text that should always be shown

The "(forced only)" sub track option in MakeMKV scans the full subtitle for forced flags and extracts only the forced ones to a separate subtitle track in the resulting MKV.
MakeMKV can add the forced flag for such tracks automatically.
If no forced flags are found, the track would be empty and MakeMKV discards the track: "Forced subtitles track #x turned out to be empty and was removed from output file"

Most Blu-rays have a separate track for the forced subtitles and don't use the forced flags.
But some have both, a separate track and the forced flags in the full subtitle track, which results in two (nearly) identical subtitle tracks in the output file.

[DukeFleed]

Most Blu-rays have a separate track for the forced subtitles and don't use the forced flags.
But some have both, a separate track and the forced flags in the full subtitle track, which results in two (nearly) identical subtitle tracks in the output file.

Unfortunately, this is not always the case, bluray authoring errors can happen, and fortunately they are rare. I had them last year, when I first backed up my blurays (200 and more). The forced ones were without flags, and there was no separate track for them. I knew they were there because when I watched the movie with the main subtitles active, they appeared. So I had to extract them manually after the rip from the main subtitles. And it also happened to me that MakeMKV failed despite the forced flag, it did not find them, while BDsup2sub did.