Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[deadchip12]

@RESET9999

Do you mind checking A Complete Unknown (2024)? It seems the movie crushes blacks heavy. I tried raising the brightness slider on my a95l from the default 50 to 51 and a lot of shadow details became visible, but that surely was not the right way to do it.
Is there a dolby vision test pattern to test black crush?

[RESET_9999]

I haven't watched it, but if you restore CMv4.0, it shouldn't be more crushed than HDR10. The movie is 99.99% under 500 nits, but the trim does have a couple of shots that get darker because of the slope adjustments. If I recall correctly, your TV has a target higher than 1000 nits, so that won't affect you because the RPU MDL is 1000 nits.

black crush test files:
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/fold ... uQRVdsXINM

[RESET_9999]

mmm. Interestingly, the Windows Movies and TV app has the same red push bug as the Shield. It also has exactly the same blue banding with the ''Multi'' pattern.

mp4 files that works in windows app: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link

and this app can play DV in HDR10. Support mkv/ts/mp4 and lossless audio. Also cmv4.0 and L5 and ST P7.. Now that we have two player on windows capable of dynamic metadata, its very easy to compare two sources.
https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9P9ZH ... n-ms&gl=MS

I just noticed that Windows 11 doesn't have the red push bug when using the Energy player in LLDV-HDR10 mode: only my Windows 10 PC does. This red push issue is directly related to the blue ramp banding seen in the Spears & Munsil color space pattern. I remember noticing the same banding on the Shield.

SM colorspace pattern: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OhnEb_ ... drive_link
red push samples: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link




Explanation of the SM ramps:
https://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio-i ... r-space-3/

A “ramp” is a smooth gradient of color or gray that goes from one color to another or one level to another as you move across or down the screen. There are six ramps on the Color Space Evaluation pattern: two vertical ramps on each side (one luma and one chroma per side), and two horizontal red and blue ramps just above and below the chroma alignment patterns.

Each of the ramps should look smooth and even, with no bands or streaks anywhere along it. The two ramps in the center should not have a wide solid colored area in the center, but should vary from black to full red or blue at a thin peak in the center and back to black.

If you see really large streaks and wildly varying levels in the ramp, that’s a sign that either your black level isn’t set quite right, or that the device doing the color conversion is prematurely clipping channels, or that it isn’t doing the Y’CbCr->RGB conversion correctly.

[deadchip12]

I haven't watched it, but if you restore CMv4.0, it shouldn't be more crushed than HDR10. The movie is 99.99% under 500 nits, but the trim does have a couple of shots that get darker because of the slope adjustments. If I recall correctly, your TV has a target higher than 1000 nits, so that won't affect you because the RPU MDL is 1000 nits.

black crush test files:
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/fold ... uQRVdsXINM

Just used your files to test black crush.
SDR looked the most accurate—I could see all the flashing bars up to 65 from my seat (1.2m from the 65-inch TV). HDR10 crushed blacks more; in order to see the 65 bar, I had to move my face closer to the screen.
Dolby Vision was by far the worst—I could barely see past the 90 bar.
Then, I realized why. A few months ago, an update caused black screens in Dolby Vision to no longer appear as true black. Based on recommendations from forum users, I lowered the RGB-Bias to -4 in the advanced color settings to counteract this. When I raised it back from -4 to 0, I could see the bars up to 67 if I moved closer to the screen. So, it still crushes blacks more than HDR10 but is better. The problem is that black is no longer true black again.
Do you have any solutions for this?

[RESET_9999]

Just used your files to test black crush.
SDR looked the most accurate—I could see all the flashing bars up to 65 from my seat (1.2m from the 65-inch TV). HDR10 crushed blacks more; in order to see the 65 bar, I had to move my face closer to the screen.
Dolby Vision was by far the worst—I could barely see past the 90 bar.
Then, I realized why. A few months ago, an update caused black screens in Dolby Vision to no longer appear as true black. Based on recommendations from forum users, I lowered the RGB-Bias to -4 in the advanced color settings to counteract this. When I raised it back from -4 to 0, I could see the bars up to 67 if I moved closer to the screen. So, it still crushes blacks more than HDR10 but is better. The problem is that black is no longer true black again.
Do you have any solutions for this?

If you can see 65 flashing from a normal viewing distance, your SDR black levels might be slightly lifted. If I'm not mistaken, you should see 66–67 flashing from a normal distance, and 65 only when looking about one foot away from the screen. Of course, all of this is in a dark room without lights.

As for the DV black crush, I have two TVs (cheap hisense and C2) and there is only black crush in cmv2.9.
cmv4.0 is good and the same as HDR10/SDR and my C2 RGB white balance is -2/-2/-2 to achieve perfect black in DV. This doesn't affect the black clipping at all for me.
Also, cmv2.9 is more crushed depending on MDL: 10 000 ­> 4 000 > 1 000

I've been reading a lot about TVs lately because I'm upgrading mine and I heard very often that Sony DV implementation is not very good so you might be better off watching HDR10.

[daffie]

Just used your files to test black crush.
SDR looked the most accurate—I could see all the flashing bars up to 65 from my seat (1.2m from the 65-inch TV). HDR10 crushed blacks more; in order to see the 65 bar, I had to move my face closer to the screen.
Dolby Vision was by far the worst—I could barely see past the 90 bar.
Then, I realized why. A few months ago, an update caused black screens in Dolby Vision to no longer appear as true black. Based on recommendations from forum users, I lowered the RGB-Bias to -4 in the advanced color settings to counteract this. When I raised it back from -4 to 0, I could see the bars up to 67 if I moved closer to the screen. So, it still crushes blacks more than HDR10 but is better. The problem is that black is no longer true black again.
Do you have any solutions for this?

If I'm not mistaken, you should see 66–67 flashing from a normal distance, and 65 only when looking about one foot away from the screen. Of course, all of this is in a dark room without lights.

Wrong.
Bar 64 is reference black. Bar 64 and everything below it should be black. Bar 65 and 66 should also be impossible to see it flashing. The first visible bar should be 67. But barely with your nose on the screen. This is all written down in the Calman calibration guide you can find on the Internet.

[skull88]

Thanks daffie! That explains why I had to raise my black level (above 50) on my LG C2 to get 65-66 to be visible and flash in a dark room, but it didn't make sense intuitively that this would be needed (and some movies looked like blacks were raised as a result). Appreciate the sourced info.

[RESET_9999]

If I'm not mistaken

Wrong.

Yeah, I was going by memory, that's why I said ''If I'm not mistaken'' ...
On my end, tv calibrated years ago, 65-66 is very slightly visible in all 3 modes,(DV/HDR10/SDR) but I have to look insanely close, and I have the perfect black room (black velvet everywhere).

[deadchip12]

Just used your files to test black crush.
SDR looked the most accurate—I could see all the flashing bars up to 65 from my seat (1.2m from the 65-inch TV). HDR10 crushed blacks more; in order to see the 65 bar, I had to move my face closer to the screen.
Dolby Vision was by far the worst—I could barely see past the 90 bar.
Then, I realized why. A few months ago, an update caused black screens in Dolby Vision to no longer appear as true black. Based on recommendations from forum users, I lowered the RGB-Bias to -4 in the advanced color settings to counteract this. When I raised it back from -4 to 0, I could see the bars up to 67 if I moved closer to the screen. So, it still crushes blacks more than HDR10 but is better. The problem is that black is no longer true black again.
Do you have any solutions for this?

If I'm not mistaken, you should see 66–67 flashing from a normal distance, and 65 only when looking about one foot away from the screen. Of course, all of this is in a dark room without lights.

Wrong.
Bar 64 is reference black. Bar 64 and everything below it should be black. Bar 65 and 66 should also be impossible to see it flashing. The first visible bar should be 67. But barely with your nose on the screen. This is all written down in the Calman calibration guide you can find on the Internet.

Do these rules apply to all SDR, HDR10 and DV? Because from the TVs I own, it seems HDR10 & DV always crush black more than SDR.

[daffie]

@deadchip12
Yes, the rules are the same for SDR, HDR and DoVi.

If I'm not mistaken

Wrong.

Yeah, I was going by memory, that's why I said ''If I'm not mistaken'' ...
On my end, tv calibrated years ago, 65-66 is very slightly visible in all 3 modes,(DV/HDR10/SDR) but I have to look insanely close, and I have the perfect black room (black velvet everywhere).

No problem mate.
At least your black levels seem to be quite good after calibration.
I had a costly ''professional'' calibration of my G1 which costs a lot of money and the black levels are still not correct. He didn't even look at them with these black bar patterns.
This is the second time I had a TV of mine calibrated by a professional and second time the result is not like it should. This is also the last time I'm getting it calibrated. Done with this crap. Seems to be impossible to get someone who actually knows his stuff in region Belgium/The Netherlands.

My black levels in SDR are ok, but in HDR the 65-66 bar is visible and in DoVi I'm not seeing bar 67+68... So I'm missing shadow details in DoVi.
The calibrator his ''Autocal'' of Dolby Vision in CALMAN even made things a lot worse. Removing a lot more shadow detail (removing even more black bars).
So I removed his calibration completely and went back to factory settings for Dolby Vision.

I kept his SDR and HDR calibration though.

You pay so much money for a good TV and for a calibration and still it is not perfect. Frustrating.

[RESET_9999]

My black levels in SDR are ok, but in HDR the 65-66 bar is visible and in DoVi I'm not seeing bar 67+68... So I'm missing shadow details in DoVi.

even in cmv4.0 ??? cmv2.9 will be crushed no matter what

[daffie]

My black levels in SDR are ok, but in HDR the 65-66 bar is visible and in DoVi I'm not seeing bar 67+68... So I'm missing shadow details in DoVi.

even in cmv4.0 ??? cmv2.9 will be crushed no matter what

Will check later tonight. Will let you know.

How sad that cmv2.9 is crushed no matter what.
99% of UHD Bluray is cmv2.9....

Will this be fixed in the future you think?

[RESET_9999]

No, I don't think CMv2.9 is fixable, but Dolby added a workaround in CMv4.0 for CMv2.9 deliveries through the generated L2 trims.
For 1000 nit MDL, it doesn't help on my C2, but for 4 000 and 10 000 nit MDL, the generated L2 trims improve the clipping. It's never as perfect as CMv4.0, HDR10, or SDR.

[daffie]

No, I don't think CMv2.9 is fixable, but Dolby added a workaround in CMv4.0 for CMv2.9 deliveries through the generated L2 trims.
For 1000 nit MDL, it doesn't help on my C2, but for 4 000 and 10 000 nit MDL, the generated L2 trims improve the clipping. It's never as perfect as CMv4.0, HDR10, or SDR.

Yeah true. But sadly, allmost all UHD Bluray is CMv2.9 and a lot of movies have 1000 nit MDL

[RESET_9999]

Yeah true. But sadly, allmost all UHD Bluray is CMv2.9 and a lot of movies have 1000 nit MDL

most of the new movies have cmv4.0 on streaming and can be transferred to the bluray remux.