Bluray menus scrambled when backing up a bluray on Apple Silicon (M1 )

[polytrauma]

Hi everybody,

I searched the whole internet and this forum, but I haven't found any hints for my issue:

I am ripping blurays with makemkv for years now and everything was fine until I've got my MacBook Pro M1 a few month ago...
When creating "backups" from blurays (which I do for instance to identify special features since I don't have a UHD disc player), the process runs without any complaints and errors. But when I start to watch the backup on my Zidoo z9x it behaves very strange: *if* menus show up, the links are somehow scrambled. I.e. when selecting a special feature, it starts a certain chapter of the movie, or it does nothing at all, or it's showing one of the piracy warning openings, or something else. Most of the time it doesn't even show the bluray menu but starts the main movie right away.

But when ripping with my office Intel MacBook pro everything is perfect - just as it used to be.

I cross checked it with a friends Zidoo player and my "M1-Rips" behave identical. Intel-Rips are fine. When creating a backup on my friends Windows-Laptop with makeMKV it plays fine on my Zidoo. I think it's definitely a M1 issue / or maybe a Mac OS 13 (Ventura) issue. I even tried to backup with it a legacy MakeMKV version. But this has no effect on the output.

What I tried:

Intel Mac:
MakeMKV: v1.16.5
Run-Mode: Intel Native
Mac OS Monterey 12.6.1
—> Backup OK


M1 Mac:
MakeMKV: v1.17.2
Run-Mode: Native M1
Mac OS Ventura 13.0.1
—> Bluray menus corrupt

MakeMKV v1.17.2
Run-Mode: Intel with Rosetta 2
Mac OS Ventura 13.0.1
—> Bluray menus corrupt

MakeMKV v1.16.5
Run-Mode: M1 Native
Mac OS Ventura 13.0.1
—> Backup not yet tested

MakeMKV v1.17.2
Run-Mode: Intel with Rosetta 2
Mac OS Ventura 13.0.1
—> Bluray menus corrupt

I'm desperate, because I cannot backup any longer on my office Mac since it will be changed soon for an Apple Silicon model - LOL.
Does anyone can suggest any further tests to brake down what causes this behaviour?
Should I do a diff comparing the folder structure of a broken and a good copy? Or can anyone even confirm this problem?
I know, most people don't care about bluray menus, but sometimes it comes in very handy for my needs.
By the way: ripping to mkv is no problem at all (main movie, special features, ...).

Any input is highly appreciated. And sorry for my english. Still working on it...
Thank you very much and good evening.

[dcoke22]

I've made backups with an M1 Mac on Bug Sur and Monterey. I have not moved any of my Macs to Ventura.

I don't use a playback system like a Zidoo, so I'm not interested in menus. I just make .mkv files from the backups for use in Plex. Those have worked fine. What happens if you make a .mkv files from your M1 made backups?

Is there any way you could find a M1 with Monterey?

Are you using the same optical drive on your various machines?

Does MakeMKV have any error messages in the logs when you make a backup?

[polytrauma]

Hi dcoke22,

Thank you very much for your reply.

Creating mkv files of any flavour works without problems on my M1 MacBook Pro. I'm always using the same optical drive for ripping, backup and testing.
My access to Macs with different Mac OS versions is quite limited. But you're right. I should try testing on a M1 Mac with Monterey or earlier. Will do my best...
Concerning the MakeMKV log, it reports some errors every now and then, but usually referring to common errors like "could not read...", "skipping file...", etc. pp. But not specifically when backing up discs.

[dcoke22]

I suppose if you could find an Intel Mac with Ventura, that would be interesting too. I wouldn't upgrade your Intel Monterey Mac since that's your only fully working rig at the moment.

I don't know why MakeMKV would work any differently regarding copying the bits of a blu-ray that comprise the menu vs the actual movie. Since .mkv files produced from backups made on M1 Ventura seem to work, MakeMKV is obviously copying some of the data from the disc correctly. It makes me wonder if this has something to do with however you're copying the backup from the computer to the Zidoo?

[polytrauma]

Bingo, I had the chance to test a bluray backup on my wife's M1 Mac which is still running on Monterey. And - tada - this backup plays nice on my Zidoo, with all the menu items linked correctly to their targets.

Meanwhile I'm in doubt, that this is a common problem on Mac OS Ventura. Maybe it's just a problem on my device?! Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to test with another Ventura M1 Mac (nor Intel). But I don't want to upgrade my wife's Mac until Im sure
I have some "specialities" installed on my Mac, i.e. Paragon Extensions for NTFS and extFS. Maybe one of these buddies interfere with the backup structure. But honestly, I don't have a clue

I'm thinking about re-installing my Mac OS from scratch. But this would be a lot of work. Maybe I will set up another apfs container and run a temporary Ventura installation there, just for testing... But before doing so I will check with my office, if there might be hardware available for testing (which will likely not be the case).
Does anybody else have experience in backing up blurays on Mac OS Ventura (and is also using this backup to playback the menus)?

I will report back here once I've got the chance to test.

Thanks and kind regards.

[polytrauma]

Finally I managed to continue my tests with new Mac hardware / new Mac OS. Unfortunately my worries have been confirmed:
Creating a backup from a bluray disc with Apple Silicon (M1 and M2) and Mac OS Ventura will output a scrambled bluray menu or no menu at all (my Zidoo Z9X is then playing the main movie right away).

My further tests:

Intel MacBook Pro with Mac OS 13.2.1 -> Backup OK, all bluray menus playing fine.
M2 MacBook Pro with Mac OS 13.2.1 -> Scrambled menus or menu doesn't come up at all.

Once again: On my wifes M1 with Mac OS Monterey bluray backups are fine.
It seems to be a problem in combination with Apple Silicon (M1 and M2) along with Mac OS Ventura (13.x).

That's how it is right now. Does anyone have any idea?

Thanks a lot!

[Billycar11]

Just curious what blurays are you using for this some will behave like this if backed up are you ripping the same blu-ray on both tests?

[polytrauma]

I tried various disks to make sure that it's not a specific problem of a certain release. But usually I'm testing with "Passengers" from 2016 in 1080p (because this disk includes the movies and the bonus features in the menu). But I've tried Top Gun Maverick, Star Wars Rogue One, James Bond - Die another day as well...

Right now I'm doing some diffs with beyond compare and chrono sync. But there is nothing different from the Monterey and Ventura copy. But Ventura stores all the additional ._ files in the backup whereas Monterey does not add these hidden files. Maybe this is confusing my player?! I need to do some more testing in this direction...

[polytrauma]

Well, I finally nailed down the root cause for the corrupt backups - but I still can't explain *why* it is a problem:

When creating a disk backup with Mac OS Ventura I need to copy it to an external usb volume to connect it to my Zidoo player. Ventura splits the extended attributes into hidden files with a "._" prefix. This is a normal procedure on Mac OS since exFAT or NTFS volumes cannot maintain these attributes.
In my case, I usually store my backups on exFAT devices, because I can copy the contents between Mac APFS, Synology BTRFS and Zidoo Android-Whatever-FS.
But it's strange: The M1 Monterey copy does not contain the ._ files in the disk backup. Both copies are on the same exFAT usb drive (screenshot below). But M1 and M2 Ventura contains it (but not Intel?).
And these files are hard to find. Finder and Chronosync don't show them - not even as hidden files. I needed beyond compare to really compare these backups (terminal of course shows the files).
Well, I just deleted all the ._ files (except "._BDMV", which exists in both backups) and played the same backup on the Zidoo without any hassle. Somehow Android doesn't like (some of) these hidden files and goes nuts.
Now I just have to find a way to prevent the hidden files are being generated / copied to the usb drive with M1 Ventura.
Maybe M1 Ventura is adding special attributes when MakeMKV is ripping the disk which then have to be copied back to the external drive...

Bildschirm­foto 2023-03-11 um 22.19.24.png (1.43 MiB) Viewed 9457 times

[asmcom]

I tried various disks to make sure that it's not a specific problem of a certain release. But usually I'm testing with "Passengers" from 2016 in 1080p (because this disk includes the movies and the bonus features in the menu). But I've tried Top Gun Maverick, Star Wars Rogue One, James Bond - Die another day as well...

Right now I'm doing some diffs with beyond compare and chrono sync. But there is nothing different from the Monterey and Ventura copy. But Ventura stores all the additional ._ files in the backup whereas Monterey does not add these hidden files. Maybe this is confusing my player?! I need to do some more testing in this direction...

Can you please update to latest version of Ventura and try full folder backup again on the same disc that was giving you problems. Are you on latest version?

Asmcom

[polytrauma]

I'm already on 13.2.1 (which is the current version as by today). Backups made yesterday and today.

[dcoke22]

I haven't tried Ventura yet, so I haven't noticed this situation.

However, there's a program called 'dot_clean' that should be included on your Mac that seems like it will help with this problem.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio ... rk-storage

[asmcom]

I'm already on 13.2.1 (which is the current version as by today). Backups made yesterday and today.

This is an interesting problem, to say the least. You have it narrowed down to the OS or the M1? MAC OS Ventura has had a lot of issues, especially with Pioneer Drives.

[polytrauma]

I haven't tried Ventura yet, so I haven't noticed this situation.

However, there's a program called 'dot_clean' that should be included on your Mac that seems like it will help with this problem.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio ... rk-storage

Thank you very much for this hint. This could be an option to disable ._ files.
However I'm curious WHY Ventura on M1 and M2 is adding extended attributes to my bluray backup?!

I did some research and now it gets really strange:
In terminal I checked what extended attributes are stored along the /PASSENGERS2016/BDMV folder (Package) with

Code: Select all

xattr /path/to/BDMV

The listed extended attribute is a new one and is called "com.apple.provenance". It seems still undocumented by Apple - and its hard to remove. I found some threads where users and applications ran into problems if this attribute appears. And they are unable to get rid of it with

Code: Select all

xattr -d

What the hell is com.apple.provenance??? Obviously this EA is glued to my backups for some reason and causes the ._* files when copying it to file systems which doesn't support extended attributes (i.e. ExFAT and NTFS). There is hardly information on this topic. But it could affect sandboxed applications. And I think MakeMKV is sandboxed (I can see a sandox.conf in a hidden .MakeMKV folder)

Of course the solution is simple to just remove the hidden files, but I would appreciate to know why this happens and what exactly this EA is good for...

Does anyone have a clue? However, concerning MakeMKV this Thread is kinda solved Thank you very much.

[dcoke22]

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio ... can-i-dele

According to that, there's some disagreement about being able to remove the attribute. One guy says he could remove it, another guy says he couldn't.


Mr. Oakley over at Eclectic Light Company always writes good stuff.
https://eclecticlight.co/2023/03/13/ven ... new-xattr/