Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[HarperVision]

Did you see my updated information in my post? Did anyone use custom DV data block info? Also the tone Mapping (compression) as I said could easily have been the cause for these anomalies because when you do player led you have to manually tell the player what the specs are for the display, unlike TV led which gets the raw info from the player and then uses it’s already known specs internally to do the processing.

It doesn’t sound like Vincent did any of this.

Yes, but this custom block sinc to the tv max
Values cx so yes it’s tone mapping to the CX
Edid sinc,
I can also do it without CX tx0 sinc & check the results.
Or no tv connected but 3000nit monitor and send the correct dv meta

See my reply above about using 10,000 nits. The lower you go, the flatter and less “HDR-Like” the image gets. I noticed once you get down to about 600-800 nits and below the image is way too flat and lifeless. 1,000 is about as low as I’ll go.

Test it with 10,000 nits and tell me what you get and see. I’d love to know what your Atomos shows. I was thinking of getting one myself! A lot of it could have to do with what the display’s characteristics add to it though. My experiences are with a BenQ LK990 and Samsung LSP9T so far. Others like the JVCs act a little differently from what I read.

[HarperVision]

Did you see my updated information in my post? Did anyone use custom DV data block info? Also the tone Mapping (compression) as I said could easily have been the cause for these anomalies because when you do player led you have to manually tell the player what the specs are for the display, unlike TV led which gets the raw info from the player and then uses it’s already known specs internally to do the processing.

It doesn’t sound like Vincent did any of this.

Yes, but this custom block sinc to the tv max
Values cx so yes it’s tone mapping to the CX
Edid sinc,
I can also do it without CX tx0 sinc & check the results.
Or no tv connected but 3000nit monitor and send the correct dv meta

Oh which EDID mode are you using with the HDFury by the way?

If you’re using a Custom EDID 0-99 (red in picture) then it isn’t using the connected display’s EDID at all.

You have to use Automix (green in picture) and add in things you want to add to the display’s native capabilities, like the Custom DV Datablock, HDR10+, etc.

[Manixx2020beyound]

Did you see my updated information in my post? Did anyone use custom DV data block info? Also the tone Mapping (compression) as I said could easily have been the cause for these anomalies because when you do player led you have to manually tell the player what the specs are for the display, unlike TV led which gets the raw info from the player and then uses it’s already known specs internally to do the processing.

It doesn’t sound like Vincent did any of this.

Yes, but this custom block sinc to the tv max
Values cx so yes it’s tone mapping to the CX
Edid sinc,
I can also do it without CX tx0 sinc & check the results.
Or no tv connected but 3000nit monitor and send the correct dv meta

Oh which EDID mode are you using with the HDFury by the way?

If you’re using a Custom EDID 0-99 (red in picture) then it isn’t using the connected display’s EDID at all.

You have to use Automix (green in picture) and add in things you want to add to the display’s native capabilities, like the Custom DV Datablock, HDR10+, etc.

Exactly what I use, did that as well in the past.

[HarperVision]

Exactly what I use, did that as well in the past.

Automix with 10,000 nits?

[Manixx2020beyound]

Exactly what I use, did that as well in the past.

Automix with 10,000 nits?

Yes I always applied the dv meta lum values,
Bt2020 10k comes out unwatchable bright scenes are over blown.
What are watching it on?
Their is nothing to watch 10k on besides the monitor it self which does look beautiful @10k nits
Bc the capture file also becomes 10knits as well
But that does not match the 1000nit hdr version
Also tv led can’t use 10k nits, well fully I’m sure it will utilize the uhdtv max lum values
Forcing 10knit don’t look rite on the CX or any UhD tv out there.

[HarperVision]

Exactly what I use, did that as well in the past.

Automix with 10,000 nits?

Yes I always applied the dv meta lum values,
Bt2020 10k comes out unwatchable bright scenes are over blown.
What are watching it on?
Their is nothing to watch 10k on besides the monitor it self which does look beautiful @10k nits
Bc the capture file also becomes 10knits as well
But that does not match the 1000nit hdr version
Also tv led can’t use 10k nits, well fully I’m sure it will utilize the uhdtv max lum values
Forcing 10knit don’t look rite on the CX or any UhD tv out there.

The key is setting the HDR/AVI Max luminance to 10,000 nits, not just the DV Data Block. This is the crucial setting that makes it not blow out on highlights, along with using the least aggressive HDR curve on your display. On the LK990 it is setting “HDR Brightness” to the -2 setting which has settings of -2, -1, 0, 1, 2 where 0 is the default for 1,000 nits.

Everyone thinks the DV Data block is the only thing that affects the tone mapping and that’s simply NOT true and I’ve proven it time and time again! It is EASILY seen and repeatable when testing scenes like The Meg chapter 8 and Aquaman chapter 6.

[Manixx2020beyound]

Don matter how u configure it.
Results do not match.
Secondly any nit value entry in the dv data block lum section will override the hdr avi lum entry
10k nit in both hdr/avi - dv- data block
Even if u create (avi meta 422 ycbr )in which I tried as well all while sending the hdr info along with the dv still no match there is a bug no denying it it’s clearly visible.
Even used max fall/cll with the dv entry.
Nop no go
It’s also on the same scene on all devices

Also to prove my point
My Shogun can output dv/rgb 8b NO LLDV
So I capture the hdr10 spares munsil with the correct colors.
Then out put in dv to my CX using the vertex
And colors match and are not affected
By tv led.
No way 10k nit work in both lum entries that’s for sure.
Also how are u comparing what your seeing to what’s its soposed be hopefully not by just a visible glance or watching,
That’s not a sure shot way of saying what your seeing matches the original??
Some comparison from the signal your getting would be nice to valadate your actual inputs in the vertex2.
Till then it’s a bug.

[RESET_9999]

I went through all the scenes Vincent HDTVtest compared The LLDV bug is real!!!(at least for the oppo, x700, shield, dune, zidoo, Chromecast) looks like a problem with yellow clipping and a darker overall image(less punch).
The SM clip is an extreme case and is built to expose those kinds of flaws, as you can see in our previous comparisons with p5 p8 and HDR10 , it can look VERY close to the HDR10 / tv-led output. I feel sorry for the Sony TV owners(or whoever getting lldv only) but at the same time, I understand why some people are not bothered by it or won't even notice the difference in most movies.

@HarperVision , my X-550R JVC projector cannot compete with your PJ but did you ever compare lldv-pq and HDR10 madVR HDR to SDR pixel shader (with dynamic target nits and tonemapping)? This looks amazing on my end, like 50x better than passthrough. I bet madvr also looks better on your high-end PJ . https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improv ... r.2954506/

eagle: https://slow.pics/c/oPMdh7qd
Red Flower: https://slow.pics/c/7U5KBDaF
Sky: https://slow.pics/c/JLOQXCUf
reptile: https://slow.pics/c/pIDLTaDN
cactus: https://slow.pics/c/0ShTtaD7
waves: https://slow.pics/c/KAo1kZw5

[ragico]

I went through all the scenes Vincent compared. The LLDV bug is real!!!(at least for the oppo,x700,shield,dune) looks like a problem with yellow clipping and a darker overall image(less punch).
The SM clip is an extreme case and is built to expose those kinds of flaws, as you can see in our previous comparisons with p5 p8 and HDR10 , it can look VERY close to the HDR10 / tv-led output. I feel sorry for the Sony owners but at the same time, I understand why some people are not bothered by it or won't even notice the difference in most movies.

@HarperVision , my X-550R jvc projector cannot compete with your PJ but did you ever compare lldv-pq and HDR10 madVR HDR to SDR pixel shader (with dynamic target nits and tonemapping)? This looks amazing on my end, like 50x better than passthrough. I bet madvr also looks better on your high-end PJ . https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improv ... r.2954506/

Red Flower: https://slow.pics/c/7U5KBDaF
Sky: https://slow.pics/c/JLOQXCUf
reptile: https://slow.pics/c/pIDLTaDN
cactus: https://slow.pics/c/0ShTtaD7
waves: https://slow.pics/c/KAo1kZw5
eagle: https://slow.pics/c/oPMdh7qd

You think we have to replace our sony x700 by the sony x800 mk2?

[deadchip12]

I went through all the scenes Vincent compared. The LLDV bug is real!!!(at least for the oppo,x700,shield,dune) looks like a problem with yellow clipping and a darker overall image(less punch).
The SM clip is an extreme case and is built to expose those kinds of flaws, as you can see in our previous comparisons with p5 p8 and HDR10 , it can look VERY close to the HDR10 / tv-led output. I feel sorry for the Sony owners but at the same time, I understand why some people are not bothered by it or won't even notice the difference in most movies.

@HarperVision , my X-550R jvc projector cannot compete with your PJ but did you ever compare lldv-pq and HDR10 madVR HDR to SDR pixel shader (with dynamic target nits and tonemapping)? This looks amazing on my end, like 50x better than passthrough. I bet madvr also looks better on your high-end PJ . https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improv ... r.2954506/

Red Flower: https://slow.pics/c/7U5KBDaF
Sky: https://slow.pics/c/JLOQXCUf
reptile: https://slow.pics/c/pIDLTaDN
cactus: https://slow.pics/c/0ShTtaD7
waves: https://slow.pics/c/KAo1kZw5
eagle: https://slow.pics/c/oPMdh7qd

You think we have to replace our sony x700 by the sony x800 mk2?

I believe he's talking about sony tvs, not sony bluray players.

[RESET_9999]

I believe he's talking about sony tvs, not sony bluray players.

correct ... most players can do both DV mode and TV-led capable TVs are not affected by this bug.
Also, there's the GoogleTV Chromecast that output lldv by default last time I checked, and no way to force tv-led unless you have an hdfury device (or a tv that doesnt support lldv).
the xbox i think also only send lldv ? but im not sure.

[lexyz]

I went through all the scenes Vincent compared. The LLDV bug is real!!!(at least for the oppo,x700,shield,dune) looks like a problem with yellow clipping and a darker overall image(less punch).

I'm glad you finally see it
viewtopic.php?p=104152#p104152
viewtopic.php?p=102737#p102737

Still I see LLDV output from Shield TV has less pasteurization, noise, and colors issues in comparison with X700, but tends to more highlights clipping

Also, check LLDV bugs noted by S.Spears himself.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... st18983769


Good news is 2021 Bravias are TV-led.
Bad news is Player-led bugs will not be fixed.

[ragico]

Someone here knows if Panasonic oled GZ 2004 year 2019 has got TV led?
Thanks

[mulucy]

I believe he's talking about sony tvs, not sony bluray players.

correct ... most players can do both DV mode and TV-led capable TVs are not affected by this bug.
Also, there's the GoogleTV Chromecast that output lldv by default last time I checked, and no way to force tv-led unless you have an hdfury device (or a tv that doesnt support lldv).
the xbox i think also only send lldv ? but im not sure.

Excellent analysis, thank you!
Just to wrap up the technical research to make sure all of us understand it. The LLDV bug ( aka Player-LED DV ) exists in all TV models regardless of whether it's Sony or not. It's a bug within Dolby's firmware, which is not going to be addressed, most likely. After reading and doing some Googling, it appears to me most Sony TVs made before 2021 are LLDV. I am assuming also this is why you felt bad for Sony TV owners in your previous comment. The LLDV bug does not really affect the players like Oppo, Sony X700, Fire TV Stick, Apple TV, and other streaming devices ( except you mentioned the Chromecast defaults to LLDV, which can be corrected with HDFury). Also, most players support both, TV-led and LLDV. So, does it mean the player automatically lets the TV handle the Dolby Vision mapping assuming it's not Sony? Please, correct me if I made a wrong statement and I misunderstood something.

And how do I know my TV does support TV-led DV? I have two TVs, a 2018 Vizio Quantum PQ65-F1, and a 2018 TCL R617.

[Manixx2020beyound]

I believe he's talking about sony tvs, not sony bluray players.

correct ... most players can do both DV mode and TV-led capable TVs are not affected by this bug.
Also, there's the GoogleTV Chromecast that output lldv by default last time I checked, and no way to force tv-led unless you have an hdfury device (or a tv that doesnt support lldv).
the xbox i think also only send lldv ? but im not sure.

Excellent analysis, thank you!
Just to wrap up the technical research to make sure all of us understand it. The LLDV bug ( aka Player-LED DV ) exists in all TV models regardless of whether it's Sony or not. It's a bug within Dolby's firmware, which is not going to be addressed, most likely. After reading and doing some Googling, it appears to me most Sony TVs made before 2021 are LLDV. I am assuming also this is why you felt bad for Sony TV owners in your previous comment. The LLDV bug does not really affect the players like Oppo, Sony X700, Fire TV Stick, Apple TV, and other streaming devices ( except you mentioned the Chromecast defaults to LLDV, which can be corrected with HDFury). Also, most players support both, TV-led and LLDV. So, does it mean the player automatically lets the TV handle the Dolby Vision mapping assuming it's not Sony? Please, correct me if I made a wrong statement and I misunderstood something.

And how do I know my TV does support TV-led DV? I have two TVs, a 2018 Vizio Quantum PQ65-F1, and a 2018 TCL R617.

The TLC supports both player led & tv led.
Hdfury or vertex2
Or a amplifier it let’s u see the specs
U will see rgb 24bit/- vs ycbr 422 12bit