Subtitles and Forced Flags

[microjazz]

Ok I am not understanding the whole forced subtitles option. If I rip Iron Man (a movie with known forced flags within the regular default subtitle track) with both subtitles and forced subtitles checked, I get one subtitle file. If I check only forced subtitles, I get only a very small forced subtitles track. What if I want to have the forced subtitles AND a selectable regular subtitle track? I would have thought that that is what you get when you select both checkboxes. Apparently not. Will this be fixed or am I missing something (Say if you check them both the output subtitle track preserves the forced flags from the original)? Anybody else notice this?

[setarip_old]

Hi!

It's my understanding that if, in fact, you get a small file when you select "Forced subtitles", that is proof positive that what you have is actually ONE subtitle stream that includes ALL dialog with some of it "flagged" as "forced subtitles" (As opposed to some discs that actually contain a SEPARATE stream for "alien language").

Therefore, if your player recognizes subtitles and "flagged" subtitles and you want the option to choose to see only "forced" subtitles or all subtitles, I believe you'll be just fine for having had both checkmarked...

[Marc_G]

Hi guys,

Is there any player software (on Windows) out there that can directly play/display the forced subtitles in the MKV's that MakeMKV makes, without going through all the effort described in other threads?

I've read these threads:
http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=978
http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... =808#p2319

It would be nice if we could just let MakeMKV do its work, load the file into a player, and watch a movie with forced subtitles. Was watching 2012 the other day, and it was very annoying because there's a fair amount of dialog in other languages. Watching the .mkv through media center of course didn't give me the forced subs, so I tried watching the physical disc in PowerDVD 7.3, and some problem with the software wouldn't let the menus come up to actually play the movie beyond the opening menu screen (known problem with 2012 disc). Grrr.

If only the player software would catch up with MakeMKV...

Marc

[setarip_old]

@Marc_G

If only the player software would catch up with MakeMKV...

You've hit the nail on the head - but I'm fairly optimistic that, now that hardware manufacturers have acknowledged that MKV is a "force to be reckoned with" (more and more hometheater setups have some degree of MKV playback ability) by the time the 2010 holiday season rolls around, they'll be far more compatible ;>}

[microjazz]

Still, I still can't prove it is working. Say I have both subs and forced subs checked in the ticker and makemkv puts out an mkv with one subtitle stream (which it does), how would I know that that pgs stream preserves the forced flags? My current practice is to run the mkv through the latest snapshot of handbrake and then use mkvtoolnix to take the video and untouched audio of the handbrake output and merge it with the subtitles from the makemkv output. This way I have a file that is between 2-6 gigs and has the ORIGINAL subtitles and audio. I have no doubt that pgs subtitles will have player support in the future. I just would like clarification that makemkv is properly handling subtitles NOW. If I extract a .sup file with mkvcleaver and open it with bdsup2sub, it says no forced flags found (to reclarify this is when ripping iron man with both subs AND forced subs checked). Would this be the incorrect way to check? Any help would be appreciated.

[mike admin]

MakeMKV outputs main subtitle track unchanged. The easiest way to validate - make a decrypted backup and MKV, use tsMuxER to demux decrypted M2TS and latest eac3to to demux produced MKV. Both will extract subtitles to PGS file, these files should have identical sizes. Content will be slightly different.

[microjazz]

I have no doubt it outputs the regular subtitles unchanged. My question pertains to forced subtitles from WITHIN a regular subtitles stream (as opposed to movies with a separate, distinct forced subtitle stream). For instance, say I use makemkv to make an mkv with video, audio and subtitles. Is there a further way to extract JUST the forced subtitles from that stream?

[Danger]

Not sure if I am understanding you right but when I used ClownBD to just demux the works
for Iron Man I got Subtitle 6 as being the full subtitles including what would have been forced
and Subtitle 13 being only the forced subs for the foreign language parts. Just my 2 cents, not
sure if its worth that much

[mike admin]

I have no doubt it outputs the regular subtitles unchanged. My question pertains to forced subtitles from WITHIN a regular subtitles stream (as opposed to movies with a separate, distinct forced subtitle stream). For instance, say I use makemkv to make an mkv with video, audio and subtitles. Is there a further way to extract JUST the forced subtitles from that stream?

Yes, each subtitle stream in a selection tree has a sub-item "forced only". If you select it you will get additional stream with ONLY forced subtitles. If subtitle stream has no forced subtitles, MakeMKV will print a notice and remove track from output file. "Forced" flag on blu-ray subtitles is per picture flag, entire file must be processed to figure out if there are any forced subtitles.

[icedtrip]

Is there any player software (on Windows) out there that can directly play/display the forced subtitles in the MKV's that MakeMKV makes, without going through all the effort described in other threads?

I didn't see where this was answered, but the answer is yes. The nightly builds for ffmpeg included PGS subtitle support back in September 2009 IIRC. This has filtered down into a couple of nightly releases for some players. Specifically, check out the nightly builds of VLC and XBMC. Both support PGS subtitles and forced subtitles for that matter too. VLC will require you to select the subtitle track if it isn't set as a default (use mkvmerge to make it a default for forced, etc). Interestingly, XBMC didn't require the forced subtitle to be set as a default and just played it properly.

The only issue you will see is that although the subtitles show just fine, the last line spoken within a scene, etc will hang around a little longer than expected.

I have tested basic PGS subtitle support with Miami Vice, Transporter, and others; and I have tested forced subtitles with King Arthur.

Now I'm waiting for Plex to pick up the ffmpeg update. Just a matter of time.