Choppy Video on VC1 MKVs

[Marc_G]

Hi folks,
Please advise me on best setup options to play back VC1 video.

Just ripped my Torchwood Season 3 (Children of the Earth) to .mkv with MakeMKV 1.4.8. The resulting .mkv files are VC1 video with DTS audio. This is actually the first VC1 video I've tried playing since moving from W7RC to RTM (32 bit).

When I play the files (via Media Center with Media Browser 2.1.1... because I'm having some difficulties with the recent 2.1.3 release), I get very stuttery video. Not the smooth play I get with AVC/h264. Lots of frames lost. Some investigation showed me that based on CPU demand of 50-60% during playback, I'm not getting hardware acceleration for these. I get acceleration for AVC/h264 files no problem (CPU use around 10%).

I recall when I set up my 7RC system, I had to set up the MPC-HC codec for VC1 to get them to play smoothly (I didn't use the whole MPC-HC player). I tried this tonight on RTM, and they are worse than running through WMC/MB. I get a few seconds of smooth video with apparent acceleration (~10-15% CPU), then the picture sort of freezes while the sound goes on. Sometimes I get garbage on the screen. Tried the same version of the MPCVideo codec I used on RC, as well as the newer August release.

FWIW, the disk image plays just dandy in PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra, with ~15% CPU usage.

My system is Home Premium x32 with a Sapphire 4550 card, Driver package version 9.10, and an Athlon X2 Kuma (7750, 2.7 Ghz) processor.
Help would be appreciated!
Marc
Note: I've got Haali splitter installed, but no other codecs other than the one W7RTM shipped with, and just now the MPC Video codec set for VC1 files only (though I turned it off after trying it). It's a very clean system right now.

[TexasGrillChef]

I too own the swet of Torchwood: Season 3: Children of Earth Blu-ray discs.

I too have run into an issue with ripping, converting and playing on my LG BD390 Blu-ray player &/or my TiVo S3/HD DVR using pyTiVo.

After much research, trial & error. This is what I found out:

1. These discs are encoded with the VC-1 codec at 1080i. Making it INTERLACED video.

2. Most conversion programs that use ffmpeg as their decoder/encoder have issues with VC-1 Interlaced video.

3. There are issues with MKV's having issues with VC-1 Interlaced video. I haven't found out the reason why. But it seems that MKV's do have issues with INTERLACED VC-1 video. Which is exactly what the Torchwood Blu-rays are.

4. Some player software, as well as hard ware can play Interlaced VC-1 video in MKV's, Some players can not. This includes software based players as well as hardware based players such as the popcord hour, the WD media player as well as others.

Now... pertaining to my actual trial & error expirimentation with Torchwood.

PowerDVD, CinePlayer, and WinDVD all play my Torchwood Blu-ray without issue.

I used AnyDVD-HD to rip the Blu-ray to my Western Digital Raptor drive (10k RPM). PowerDVD, CinePlayer & WinDVD will all play the original ripped M2TS file correctly without issue. Even Microsoft Media Player 12 that comes with W7 plays the M2TS file without issue.

Using TSMuxerGUI... I demuxed the M2TS file into 2 seperate files. A VC1 video track and a AC3 Audio track. Both of those files play fine in all the previously mentioned players.

If I remux the 2 tracks back together again with TSMuxerGUI. They fail, They won't play. I even tried transfering it to my TiVo with pyTiVo (It does some conversion as well) and it wouldn't play there as well.

So I then tried MakeMKV. Again the same issue. Won't play on any of my previously mentioned software players, or even on my TiVo.

Next thing I tried was "HandBrake" Now it converts VC-1 video to H.264. It won't support keeping the DTS track. But it will downconvert it as far as I can tell (so far) to AC3. My Computer that I use to process video is still processing. So I don't have the conclusion to this test.

I also tried VC12AVI. So far it seems to work, but seems a little tedious. As it doesn't do anything with the audio track. It simily takes the demuxed VC1 video track and converts it to multiple AVI files. The AVI files play just fine in all of my players. I did a simple test of using Corels VideoStudio Pro X2 to put the audio track (AC3) and the AVI files back together again & write a MP4 file. Took FOREVER to process even on a 3.2ghz Duo 2 Quad Core system with 10k Rpm raptor drive. It worked. I am going to try a few otehr programs in place of Corels VideoSTudio Pro X2. To see if they are faster &/or better.

This is only my speculation. IS that we need to find a way to convert the VC-1 video track on Torchwood to either Progressive VC-1, or into H.264. Especially if you want to play this series on anything other than a computer.

TGC

P.S. I will post anything else as I come up with solutions

[Marc_G]

TGC-

This is a very valuable contribution. Thanks for taking the time to post. It's amazing that someone is having the same problems with the very same disk; who would have thought I'd find someone here with the same exact issue.

Anyway, I did some testing based on your post and found indeed that all my VC1 files that are 23.x frames per sec "work fine" (more on this in a sec); the Torchwood ones are unique in my current collection in that they are 29.x frames per sec. AS you say, 1080i. I just purged close to half a terrabyte of other stuff that I bet would have included some additional problematic content at 1080i VC1.

Now, as to "working fine," on my system using the stock MS decoder and Haali splitter (I'm on W7 RTM), working isn't quite perfect as DXVA isn't kicking in. I'm pegging my CPU to play these things. Apparently there's a bug in Windows. See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... st17470650

I posted trouble with using the MPCHC codecs as well, but that was before I read your post about the 1080i factor. I will need to retry with some of my other non-1080i VC1 content and see what I get.

Thanks again and please keep me posted. I will do the same.

Marc

[TexasGrillChef]

I have other VC-1 encoded content as well.

I have been succesful in getting them to play without issue. They of course are all 1080P VC-1 files. Some are using the so called 24fps and a few are using 30fps standard. (23x and 29.x).

Example of my VC-1 encoded Blu-rays are Star Trek.

The Star Trek: TOS series both Season 1 & Season 2 come on a total of 14 Blu-rays. 7 discs per season. They are 1080P VC-1, but they are using the TV standard of 30fps.

I also have the Star Trek Movies Blu-ray releases as well. Those are all encoded as 1080P VC-1 as well. However, their FPS is 24fps to match with industry standard for movies.

I did not use MakeMKV to create the MKV files for each episode of Star Trek: TOS, or the Star Trek movies. I used eac3to to create a VC1 and AC3 elementary Video & Audio stream. I then used MKVmegeGui to merge the create a MKV from the VC1 and AC3 audio/video tracks. The newly created MKV files play without issue on my computers as well as my TiVo using pyTiVo as the transfer server. They still don't play on my LG BD390 Blu-ray player yet, but thats an issue with the BD390 and not the MKV file. AS currently the BD390 won't play VC-1 encoded files. (Other that that on a true Blu-ray disc)

I will add that "Test" to my "testing" que. To test how MakeMKV handles making a MKV out of one of the episodes on Star Trek: TOS and one of the Star Trek Movies. Season 3 Blu-ray set of Star Trek: TOS won't be released until 12-01-2009.

As far as how your computer is handling the playback of your video files. I don't rightly have an answer for that. I can tell you what I am using.

HP computer, with a 10k rpm drive I use to process video on. (300gb), 3.2ghz Duo 2 Quad Processor, 8gb Ram, 32gb Readyboost, Windows 7 Ulitmate (Retail version) nVidia 9500gs 512mb video card. V2 Pure video processor??? on video card.

I have the following software installed:
Roxio Cineplayer
Cyberlink PowerDirector with PowerDVD
Mkv and Halli media splitter
Licensed DiVx software installed as well
Corel WindDVD 10
Pinnacle
Adobe Priemere 8
Microsoft Expression 3 Encoder

Those are the only programs I can think of that include any kind of encoding/decoding codecs.

I have several other comptuers, laptops, desktops, netbooks. Running anything from Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, 32 bit, and Vista Ultimate 64 bit and 32 bit, and one computer running Windows XP. A few of those computers do have issues playing back some of the MKV's I have created. Either with VC-1 video or H.264 video. But the ones it doesn't play back smoothly on, I understand why. Some of them are not the fastest computers either.

WTC

[Marc_G]

Great further discussion. Until I read you post I didn't realize that it was only select VC1 content that was causing the problems with major stuttering etc., instead of all of it. Now I see it's just a select bit of the content, in fact for me just Torchwood as far as I can tell.

Meanwhile I will try to get time to see if the MPCHC codec works ok for DXVA on my other VC1 content. I'd rather use the graphics card than the CPU if possible.

Marc

[TexasGrillChef]

Ok... I am now running the test on the actual Torchwood content now. When it finishes I will update you on the progress.

Here is what happend with my test of "Two Lovers" (A movie for my wife lol)

I used TSmuxer and demuxed the original M2TS file into it's two elementary Audio/Video streams. A .VC1 video file, and a .DTS audio file. It downcoverted the DTS-HD into the DTS core in the process of it's demuxing.

I then ran the VC1 video file through VC12AVI. The result was about 7 AVI files. I then used Corels' VideoStudio Pro X2 and imported the 7 AVI files & outputed as NTSC HD Blu-ray M2TS file. The resulting file had a blank LPCM audio track in it. I then demuxed out the MPG2 HD file. Deleted the M2TS file that VideoStudio created. I then used MKVmergeGUI and created a MKV file with the newly created MPG2 video track, and the original untouched DTS audio file I originally demuxed and haven't done anything with yet. This created a MKV file with the MPG2 HD video and a DTS audio track. All in all on my system. It took about 18 hours of total processing time. However... the resulting MKV file plays without issue on EVERY video file player I have on ALL of my computer systems WITHOUT ANY issues of any kind. The MKV file also plays on my LG BD390 player and TiVo without issue as well. It also transfers to my TiVo about 4 times faster than the original VC1 encoded MKV file did. (The VC1 MKV takes about 6 hours to transfer to my TiVo, the new MPG2 MKV does it in 2hrs)

When comparing video quality. I have not been able to see any difference (if there is) between the two MKV files. Either on my comptuer, or on my TiVo. The BD390 doesn't play VC1 MKV's so I can't compare there.

I also tried Handbrake. The total time was about the same. The handbrake step of this process was the longest processing step and took about 14 hours to finish. However, the other steps were fast. IN the previous example the VideoStudio process to combine the AVI files into a MPG2 M2TS file took the longest at about 12 hours.

The handbrake process is as follows Step 1 is load the original M2TS file into handbrake and get it started converting the VC1 video track into H.264 MKV. Like I said this process took about 14 hours on the movie "Two Lovers". When that is complete. Demux the video and audio track from the MKV. Demux & downconvert the DTS core audio track from the ORIGINAL M2TS file that was ripped from the Blu-ray. Then REMUX the H.264 video track that was pulled from the MKV file and merge it with the DTS audio track using MKVmergeGUI. This will create a new MKV with the H.264 video track and DTS audio track. Total processing time on this was about 18 hours as well. If either process was faster then the other, it wasn't by anything really noticeable. Again this new MKV played without issue on ALL of my computers, as well as my TiVo and BD390.

Notice sadly though, that I haven't used MakeMKV in any of the steps I used to convert or use any VC1 Encoded Blu-ray. I am now only using MakeMKV for Blu-rays that are using MPG2 or H.264 video encoding.

My Video system is now processing an episode of Torchwood. I think "Day 3". I am currently trying it with the first solution of using VC12AVI. I am going to get another system started with the Handbrake solution to see how that comes out. When I have finished I will let you know how it came out.

TGC

P.S..... UPDATE.....

Handbrake bombed... crashed after about 30 min processing of the VC1 interlaced video. VC12AVI finished processing the VC-1 Interlaced video. Yet, when the AVI's were checked. They played, but the video looked like it was encrypted. Basically unwatchable.

Thus NEITHER of those programs (Handbrake & VC12AVI) could handle Interlaced VC-1 video. Now trying to do some research on what can handle VC-1 Interlaced.

ANOTHER UPDATE.....

"Two Lovers" did play just fine on my computers. However, when trying to play on my BD-390 I had an issue with the VC12AVI route. (The video was jittery) The handbrake option played just fine on my BD390. But what I noticed when I tested on my BD390 that I neglected to notice on my computers... is that Handbrake stretched the video (Up & down) to get rid of the black bars on the top and bottom of the movie. Thus distorting the movie. The VC12AVI option left the black bars on the top and bottom.

So neither is still a perfect solution.

[Marc_G]

It's a good thing 1080i VC1 content is rare!

Thanks for reporting back. For the moment I'm using the MPCVideoDec.ax filter for VC1, and will just watch Torchwook with PowerDVD. Rene over on AVSForum has suggestions for what codec to use for interlaced VC1 and I may play with it this weekend if time allows.

Marc