Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[lexyz]

Based on available information and own comparisons I'm sure LLDV bug affect only BD players. Seems Dolby's software for BD players has flaw, which is knows at least since 2019 but still not fixed.
A little hope bound to a new S&M UHD Benchmark disk with DV test patterns. Maybe some reviewers and big av-sites will stress that DV in LL mode is crippled tech.
And maybe Dolby will finally provide updated SDK for BD players manufacturers. (at least Sony and Panasonic)

also, it looks like your HDR10 picture is from the 10 000nits version

It was 1000
No point to run 10k version on Bravias

[Manixx2020beyound]

.........Secondly any nit value entry in the dv data block lum section will override the hdr avi lum entry
10k nit in both hdr/avi - dv- data block ............

.............No way 10k nit work in both lum entries that’s for sure......

The DV Data Block does not override the HDR/AVI settings, that's what I am saying I do and have proven over and over by doing it personally! I get the blown out highlights like you're saying when I ONLY change the DV Data Block, but then I immediately change the parameters in the HDR/AVI Max Luminance section to 10,000 nits and it magically then tone maps and makes the image with much details and NO CLIPPING, even in scenes which are easily noticeable like I said, The Meg chapter 8 (overturned boat) and Aquaman chapter 6 (Aquaman in chains looking at his brother the king with bright white elaborate framed window behind him).

What you have to do and maybe what I wasn't clear on, is that for those very bright movies and to ensure no clipping with DTM, then you have to set the DV Data Block to 1,000 nits (not 10,000) but set HDR/AVI max luminance to 10,000 nits. I have seen that the movies mastered at 1,000 nits and streaming movies from Netflix, iTunes, AppleTV+, etc. that the DV Data Block at 10,000 nits works extremely well and that is how I watched Army of the Dead, which was incredible. For any 2,000 - 10,000 nit source, you do need to set DV Data Block to 1,000 nits though. This is also what I recommend as a good "set and forget" setting to get full DTM for ANY source, but then I have to set the HDR Brightness to its "0" default setting. It doesn't look quite as good as the full 10,000 nit version when watching streaming iTunes and Netflix, so to ME at least, it's worth switching modes, which is only one button push on my Harmony anyway, so simple.

I think what you and some others may have done when testing this is set the DV Data Block and HDR/AVI's max luminance settings and not stopped the video, gone back to the GUI/Menu, and then restart it all from scratch so the new EDID and Custom Data takes effect. I have done that on many occasions and forgot to restart and was SO angry thinking I knew it worked before and I knew I changed parameters, but then eventually realized I didn't restart so the new settings didn't take effect. Once I did the difference was clearly apparent!

......Also how are u comparing what your seeing to what’s its soposed be hopefully not by just a visible glance or watching,
That’s not a sure shot way of saying what your seeing matches the original??
Some comparison from the signal your getting would be nice to valadate your actual inputs in the vertex2.

I have done many workflow HDR jobs using this method with my CalMAN for Business software and i1Pro2 spectro, which bears out the proper tone mapping.

I also have an LG 65C8 OLED which does TV Led DV and have looked at both using the same scenes. I am not saying that I don't agree there isn't an LLDV bug. I was just saying that it appeared to me that Vincent's conclusion wasn't based on enough data when he posted that video as he only appeared to have tested one UHD Bluray player, an Oppo 203 I believe. Now that you and others are coming in with more data, then it makes it more factual where the root cause is.

I also want to stress that I am mostly using an AppleTV 4K newest generation with Infuse app on ripped UHD Blurays, as well as iTunes, Netflix, etc. streaming 4K UHD DV titles. Most of your and Vincent's analysis is done using discs and disc players, no? Have you tested AppleTV using Infuse, converting the ripped HDR10 movie to LLDV to see if that shows the same bug?

I will have to watch Vincent's video again. I don't recall everything that was reported exactly.

I will post some quick comparison phone pictures showing how changing the HDR/AVI tab's max luminance to 10,000 nits eliminates clipping and does DTM. It won't be for image quality, just to show how it brings back all the highlight details in the clouds, window frame, etc. It also does the same for the low level shadow details too.

Everything u said here I have tried.
Many many times
Yes 1000nit for the real bright movies is correct
Thats what the Sony does when outputting
Or tone mapping dv to hdr using the Rpu meta regardless of the movie original master ing nits only send 1000nit.
I can match the 1000 nit hdr version from the 10000nit version.(but the bug still there)
Will try some of my streaming devices today to see if it’s on all devices but so far seems like it is we will know for sure.

[knilch]

@anyone who know something

I just don't get it. What is an RPU? And why is an MEL needed when there is no information in it? Why is an RPU needed when you have an FEL? What happens with an FEL when you use yusescope's tool and convert FEL to MEL? Is the information lost? Is it somehow added to the RPU? And what happens if BL+FEL+RPU is converted to profile 8.1? Is the base layer changed in any way at any time?

Info is much appeciated!

Regards
knilch

[mulucy]

@anyone who know something

I just don't get it. What is an RPU? And why is an MEL needed when there is no information in it? Why is an RPU needed when you have an FEL? What happens with an FEL when you use yusescope's tool and convert FEL to MEL? Is the information lost? Is it somehow added to the RPU? And what happens if BL+FEL+RPU is converted to profile 8.1? Is the base layer changed in any way at any time?

Info is much appeciated!

Regards
knilch

take your time and have fun https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... st16884278

[knilch]

Thanks vor the link. However it doesn't answer the question what exactly is stored in an RPU and how an RPU gets changed when you convert from FEL to MEL or convert FEL to profile 8.1.

The reason for my interest is this: I plan to rip BL+FEL+RPU double track dual layer from BD, then extract BL and EL and convert to profile 8.1 using yusesope's tools mentioned in this thread ending up with a BL+RPU. What information is added to the RPU from source EL (if any?), what information is lost in the conversion and is BL changed in any way. And then on: The resulting BL+RPU goes into x265 for reencoding ending up with another now compressed BL+RPU and will then be multiplexed with audio/subs to MKV.

[chros]

I'm not sure what you try to do is correct (injecting p5 RPU into hdr10 streams), and I don't even mean the color issue: it would be correct, if they would use the same mastering process for the streaming and the UHD-BD version. But I think that's not the case.
And if the UHD-BD is created in hdr10 (or hdr10+ recently) in mind, then the whole movie is graded with a static curve and the dynamic p5 rpu will modify the look the wrong way.

I think most movies are graded in single deliverable HDR workflow(DV or hdr10+ or both) and HDR10/SDR are just derived(trim pass) from the HDR master. so the static BL is the same, thats why it works (perfect brightness match with p5)...
Theaters get a different grade and that make sense because of the lower luminance of PJ. But 1 grade for streaming and 1 other grade for bluray releases? sounds like a waste of time and money when you can do it in just 1 grade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhxORqncgJE

Well, good question. But what's the point of releasing those titles from the same studio (e.g. Disney) in hdr10 then? The only thing I can think of is licensing fees, but ... seriously?
Don't get me wrong, it the result is looking better, then why not use it, we don't have a clue how it should look anyway

Thanks, that was an interesting video. Here's a good video from a french colorist, talks about DoVi workflow, manual SDR grading, fake HDR, and the end (from ~48 minutes) is also really interesting (He has the same clips graded in various formats on his website lelabodejay.com)

Firestick 4k + patched Kodi ... And indeed there's no banding/posterization, so my theory was wrong: Firestick 4k also triggers tv-led DoVi with our 2018 LG.

To add another variable into the mix
We know now that Firestick also triggers TV-Led Dovi with 2018 LGs, but the whole image is noticably darker, e.g. compared to internal apps.
Here's the profile 8.1 version of Spears's black clipping DoVi pattern, so I fired it up on FIrestick and Oppo as well (Plex didn't recognised it, dunno how that works):
- Oppo: 72 barely flashing
- Firestick: 81 barely flashing!!!

But it's not just the low end that is affected, the whole image seems to be a bit darker, it's like double-expanded is set in madvr ...

So, guys, if you like, you can also try this out (in a pitch black room) with your display and other devices to see how they behave.

[RESET_9999]

Well, good question. But what's the point of releasing those titles from the same studio (e.g. Disney) in hdr10 then? The only thing I can think of is licensing fees, but ... seriously?
Don't get me wrong, it the result is looking better, then why not use it, we don't have a clue how it should look anyway
Thanks, that was an interesting video. Here's a good video from a french colorist, talks about DoVi workflow, manual SDR grading, fake HDR, and the end (from ~48 minutes) is also really interesting (He has the same clips graded in various formats on his website lelabodejay.com)

thank you, yes i know this guy, I'm French too I used his clip for testing quietvoid rpu injector and got odd results just like the appleTV+ content. The P5 clip has strange lines (ringing?) in the blue.
I talked about it here:
viewtopic.php?p=111029#p111029
viewtopic.php?p=111042#p111042

Firestick 4k + patched Kodi ... And indeed there's no banding/posterization, so my theory was wrong: Firestick 4k also triggers tv-led DoVi with our 2018 LG.
To add another variable into the mix
We know now that Firestick also triggers TV-Led Dovi with 2018 LGs, but the whole image is noticably darker, e.g. compared to internal apps.
Here's the profile 8.1 version of Spears's black clipping DoVi pattern, so I fired it up on FIrestick and Oppo as well (Plex didn't recognised it, dunno how that works):
- Oppo: 72 barely flashing
- Firestick: 81 barely flashing!!!

But it's not just the low end that is affected, the whole image seems to be a bit darker, it's like double-expanded is set in madvr ...

So, guys, if you like, you can also try this out (in a pitch black room) with your display and other devices to see how they behave.

that's me @TbeRw01 on bluray forum
I also compared my devices with this pattern and the x700, the Shield, the Ugoos, and my C8 internal app all start crushing black at the same 70-72. I'm reading comments about the same issue with the newer CX and C1 TV so I guess it's a Dolby problem. I wonder if it's also crushed on Sony and Panasonic TV, of course as you said, you need to have a pitch-black room.

Using the same clip in HDR10 I can see flashing 65-66 on all my device. hows HDR10 on the firestick?

[quietvoid]

HDR10 on the Firestick is fine, the near black issue is just a problem for Dolby Vision.
I can't really remember but I think mine only crushed black below 83 when using brightness 49, but contrast 99 should be a lot better.

[RESET_9999]

contrast 99 should be a lot better.

yes, that works very well to fix the raised black I was getting with DV content. In the past months, I've been enjoying DV on my C8 more than ever before, and it doesnt affect the shadow details nor the colors at all... Netflix ending credits are now truly black instead of grey. It even works for Atomic Blonde BD which I used to find unwatchable in DV.

Someone here knows if Panasonic oled GZ 2004 year 2019 has got TV led?
Thanks

since you also have the UGOOS device. Take a look in the DV settings page, if you have 3 options ( tv-led / player-led / dv off) then your TV supports tv-led DV. If you only have two options, then it doesnt.
and the LLDV bug is as bad as the x700 on this device.

[ragico]

contrast 99 should be a lot better.

yes, that works very well to fix the raised black I was getting with DV content. In the past months, I've been enjoying DV on my C8 more than ever before, and it doesnt affect the shadow details nor the colors at all... Netflix ending credits are now truly black instead of grey. It even works for Atomic Blonde BD which I used to find unwatchable in DV.

Someone here knows if Panasonic oled GZ 2004 year 2019 has got TV led?
Thanks

since you also have the UGOOS device. Take a look in the DV settings page, if you have 3 options ( tv-led / player-led / dv off) then your TV supports tv-led DV. If you only have two options, then it doesnt.
and the LLDV bug is as bad as the x700 on this device.

Only 2 options. Pity
On the Lg CX I have 3 options and I choose the first option.
The LLDV bug affects only the player-led or also the tv-led on the ugoos?

[RESET_9999]

Only 2 options. Pity
On the Lg CX I have 3 options and I choose the first option.
The LLDV bug affects only the player-led or also the tv-led on the ugoos?

lldv = player-led , it's just another way of naming it.
so yeah tv-led(RGB 8bit tunneling) on the ugoos is accurate.

[ragico]

Only 2 options. Pity
On the Lg CX I have 3 options and I choose the first option.
The LLDV bug affects only the player-led or also the tv-led on the ugoos?

lldv = player-led , it's just another way of naming it.
so yeah tv-led(RGB 8bit tunneling) on the ugoos is accurate.

Thanks for that clarification.
I like the Ugoos even if it has its own problems.
I am not aware of a device without its own problems

[chros]

thank you, yes i know this guy, I'm French too ... hat's me @TbeRw01 on bluray forum

Nice, so you could listen the undubbed version And thanks for the profile8 version of spears's sample and all the other testing you guys have done!

Firestick 4k + patched Kodi ... And indeed there's no banding/posterization, so my theory was wrong: Firestick 4k also triggers tv-led DoVi with our 2018 LG.
To add another variable into the mix
We know now that Firestick also triggers TV-Led Dovi with 2018 LGs, but the whole image is noticably darker, e.g. compared to internal apps.
Here's the profile 8.1 version of Spears's black clipping DoVi pattern, so I fired it up on FIrestick and Oppo as well (Plex didn't recognised it, dunno how that works):
- Oppo: 72 barely flashing
- Firestick: 81 barely flashing!!!

But it's not just the low end that is affected, the whole image seems to be a bit darker, it's like double-expanded is set in madvr ...

So, guys, if you like, you can also try this out (in a pitch black room) with your display and other devices to see how they behave.

I also compared my devices with this pattern and the x700, the Shield, the Ugoos, and my C8 internal app all start crushing black at the same 70-72.

Thanks for this, so it's the firestick ...
And I also managed to check this via Plex (I had to separate categories), and that's also fine (~>=72 is blinking).

Using the same clip in HDR10 I can see flashing 65-66 on all my device. hows HDR10 on the firestick?

Just checked and that's fine in normal mode (PC mode clips black, only >=76 is visible, but that happens with all the sources).

HDR10 on the Firestick is fine, the near black issue is just a problem for Dolby Vision.
I can't really remember but I think mine only crushed black below 83 when using brightness 49, but contrast 99 should be a lot better.

Can you check with the profile8 clip with default settings? (brightness 50, contrast 100, oled light 50)
The Pulsar 0.005 nits rectangle is also clipped at the middle top, I hope you will get the same ~70 result, that would mean a firestick setting is responsible for my 81 result ...

I'm reading comments about the same issue with the newer CX and C1 TV so I guess it's a Dolby problem. I wonder if it's also crushed on Sony and Panasonic TV, of course as you said, you need to have a pitch-black room.

I just asked couple of owners over doom9, so we will know more soon.

contrast 99 ... yes, that works very well to fix the raised black I was getting with DV content. ... and it doesnt affect the shadow details nor the colors at all... Netflix ending credits are now truly black instead of grey. It even works for Atomic Blonde BD which I used to find unwatchable in DV.

Unfortunately, it does not, it produces hue shift.
But the near black glowing (if you have it) can be eliminated with custom 1dlut!

In the past months, I've been enjoying DV on my C8 more than ever before

That's interesting you mentioned this, because I started to enjoy HDR10 on our 2018 LG in the last couple of weeks, since madvr added 3dlut support for hdr10 output! You can read it from here (only couple of pages discussion): basically we got a new TV for hdr10!

[deadchip12]

HDR10 on the Firestick is fine, the near black issue is just a problem for Dolby Vision.
I can't really remember but I think mine only crushed black below 83 when using brightness 49, but contrast 99 should be a lot better.

When I play dolby vision mp4 films on an external hdd connected to my oled, in near black areas I can almost see a strange line pattern continuously run diagonally. Very weird. Do you see the same thing?

[quietvoid]

When I play dolby vision mp4 films on an external hdd connected to my oled, in near black areas I can almost see a strange line pattern continuously run diagonally. Very weird. Do you see the same thing?

Never seen anything like what you're describing.