www.makemkv.com

Posted: **Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:13 pm**

mulucy wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:52 pm The quality gap is very narrow and the convenience of streaming it's a winner for me. I am sure with better internet speeds, we will have the option to stream lossless auido in the future.

I agree with the fact that sooner or later physical media will go (although dvds are still around). But no way is streaming quality gap narrow. There’s a massive difference in bitrate.

Unfortunately it will have nothing to do with internet speeds, streaming companies will not want to store lossless/high bitrate content, no matter how cheap or doable it is - it just means it’s even more profitable to store the current bitrate starved versions.

Even just lossless audio is unlikely to happen, the next step will be the still lossy AC4.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 am**

For anyone with an LG CX, the new firmware update purportedly allows profile 7 files to be played in the internal player. I'm unable to test this myself for a few weeks since I'm staying away from home. Previously the LG CX could only play 8.1 files. Good news if true because, unlike 8.1, profile 7 is dual layer and I believe supports the 12 bit colour in FEL titles. It could also make it far easier to play DV files if we can just rip them (albiet there still needs to be an audio conversion) rather than also having to do the Yosupe 8.1.bat conversion.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:54 am**

quick question i wanna ask
what profiles should we use or does this depend on the situtation
like whats the diffrence between profile 7 and profile 8.1?

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:01 am**

I noticed following yuescopes guide with ffmpeg
that the ffmpeg is rather fast converting the file to bl and el
is this because i'm using the wrong command?
it also creates only very small files (1GB) with a super low bitrate

is this something to do with my m2ts file?
i follow the first guide on his FEL TO MEL

movie i tested with was mission impossible fallout and 1917
how do i know if these movies are fel titles or mel titles?

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:45 am**

rosavanwinkle wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:54 am quick question i wanna ask
what profiles should we use or does this depend on the situtation
like whats the diffrence between profile 7 and profile 8.1?

Maybe if you looked at my post directly above yours you might get some answers...
If you google Dolby vision profiles it is easy to find the Dolby paper which lays out the differences, albiet somewhat vaguely.

7 theoretically allows for 12 bit colour with supported titles, while 8.1 does not. However you might find that profile 7 MEL (10 bit colour) works while profile 7 FEL (12 bit colour) does not. If neither works you might try 8.1. Outside of the 12 bit colour both 7 and 8.1 should present the same visually.

Your bio says NVIDIA Shield, I don't use that but there's plenty of talk of the Shield in this thread.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:07 am**

dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 am For anyone with an LG CX, the new firmware update purportedly allows profile 7 files to be played in the internal player. I'm unable to test this myself for a few weeks since I'm staying away from home. Previously the LG CX could only play 8.1 files. Good news if true because, unlike 8.1, profile 7 is dual layer and I believe supports the 12 bit colour in FEL titles. It could also make it far easier to play DV files if we can just rip them (albiet there still needs to be an audio conversion) rather than also having to do the Yosupe 8.1.bat conversion.

That's so awesome. I just started researching this because of the CX fixed dolby vision raised blacks.

I have just one question. I know that the LG Webos Plex can't play lossless atmos on dolby vision remux, but is it possible to play lossy atmos from blu-ray remux? My understanding is that if a blu-ray contains a TrueHD atmos track, that it also contains a lossy version as a fall-back. Is that correct? And can the CX play that?
Because i have a soundbar(even though its a pretty good one), and i think i would sacrifice lossless atmos for lossy if i can get dolby vision.
Thanks

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:39 am**

dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:45 am 7 theoretically allows for 12 bit colour with supported titles, while 8.1 does not. However you might find that profile 7 MEL (10 bit colour) works while profile 7 FEL (12 bit colour) does not. If neither works you might try 8.1. Outside of the 12 bit colour both 7 and 8.1 should present the same visually.

there is a difference visually. DV profile 8.1 is single layer, hence it is 10bit 420, while profile 7 FEL is dual layer resulting in a 12bit 422 signal. Profile 7 MEL is only ever 10bit 420 as well.

The difference between 10bit to 12 bit is negligible, because (a) you're eyes won't see it (most likely) and (b) because most current end consumer TVs are 10bit panels at best.

But the difference between 420 and 422 chroma subsampling is perceivable, THIS is the real deal. 420 is 1/4 color resolution while 422 is 1/2 color resolution (of original full color). You get DOUBLE the color resolution.

422 is what we want.

All pro signals and backups used to be 10bit 422 (until storage became much cheaper and compressed RAW formats came around).

Color resolution is more important than bit depth.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:57 am**

dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 am For anyone with an LG CX, the new firmware update purportedly allows profile 7 files to be played in the internal player. I'm unable to test this myself for a few weeks since I'm staying away from home. Previously the LG CX could only play 8.1 files. Good news if true because, unlike 8.1, profile 7 is dual layer and I believe supports the 12 bit colour in FEL titles. It could also make it far easier to play DV files if we can just rip them (albiet there still needs to be an audio conversion) rather than also having to do the Yosupe 8.1.bat conversion.

Where have you seen/heard this? Willing to try it but always scared to update the firmware if it’s just as likely to break something else (‘if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it’ mindset

).

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:07 pm**

pete19 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:39 am
dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:45 am 7 theoretically allows for 12 bit colour with supported titles, while 8.1 does not. However you might find that profile 7 MEL (10 bit colour) works while profile 7 FEL (12 bit colour) does not. If neither works you might try 8.1. Outside of the 12 bit colour both 7 and 8.1 should present the same visually.
there is a difference visually. DV profile 8.1 is single layer, hence it is 10bit 420, while profile 7 FEL is dual layer resulting in a 12bit 422 signal. Profile 7 MEL is only ever 10bit 420 as well.

The difference between 10bit to 12 bit is negligible, because (a) you're eyes won't see it (most likely) and (b) because most current end consumer TVs are 10bit panels at best.

But the difference between 420 and 422 chroma subsampling is perceivable, THIS is the real deal. 420 is 1/4 color resolution while 422 is 1/2 color resolution (of original full color). You get DOUBLE the color resolution.

422 is what we want.

All pro signals and backups used to be 10bit 422 (until storage became much cheaper and compressed RAW formats came around).

Color resolution is more important than bit depth.

so you are suggesting in theory that its better to go with profile 7? if i make single layer dolby vision movies? (its for a shield tv pro)

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:04 pm**

PlatypusW wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:57 am
dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 am For anyone with an LG CX, the new firmware update purportedly allows profile 7 files to be played in the internal player. I'm unable to test this myself for a few weeks since I'm staying away from home. Previously the LG CX could only play 8.1 files. Good news if true because, unlike 8.1, profile 7 is dual layer and I believe supports the 12 bit colour in FEL titles. It could also make it far easier to play DV files if we can just rip them (albiet there still needs to be an audio conversion) rather than also having to do the Yosupe 8.1.bat conversion.
Where have you seen/heard this? Willing to try it but always scared to update the firmware if it’s just as likely to break something else (‘if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it’ mindset ).

AVS Forums. Sounds like the update is only in Korea for now, last time I think it took a day to release elsewhere but I think it's been two days now. Wait a week and read the AVS LG thread to monitor for deficiencies I suppose.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm**

pete19 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:39 am
dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:45 am 7 theoretically allows for 12 bit colour with supported titles, while 8.1 does not. However you might find that profile 7 MEL (10 bit colour) works while profile 7 FEL (12 bit colour) does not. If neither works you might try 8.1. Outside of the 12 bit colour both 7 and 8.1 should present the same visually.
there is a difference visually. DV profile 8.1 is single layer, hence it is 10bit 420, while profile 7 FEL is dual layer resulting in a 12bit 422 signal. Profile 7 MEL is only ever 10bit 420 as well.

The difference between 10bit to 12 bit is negligible, because (a) you're eyes won't see it (most likely) and (b) because most current end consumer TVs are 10bit panels at best.

But the difference between 420 and 422 chroma subsampling is perceivable, THIS is the real deal. 420 is 1/4 color resolution while 422 is 1/2 color resolution (of original full color). You get DOUBLE the color resolution.

422 is what we want.

All pro signals and backups used to be 10bit 422 (until storage became much cheaper and compressed RAW formats came around).

Color resolution is more important than bit depth.

Very interesting, I would like to know where you learnt this since the public Dolby vision paper doesn't really make mention of this at all. In fact, while it does mention FEL it doesn't actually describe what FEL means. But it only lists profile 7 as 1:1/4 (4:2:0.) and makes no mention of either 12 bit colour or 4:2:2.

Either way, through 12 bit colour (theorized to make a small improvement to gradients when downscaling to 10 bit panel) or higher colour resolution, FEL profile 7 is slightly superior to 8.1.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm**

pete19 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:39 am while profile 7 FEL is dual layer resulting in a 12bit 422 signal.

Wow. Hold on

Looks like you overtheorize a little
p7FEL is 420 as well as p7MEL, or p5, or almost any other video (except some 422 HD sattelite streams)
FEL is more bitdepth only, it doesn't add color resolution
p7FEL 422 is upsampled from 420 by player . Same for regular 420 HDR or SDR

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:19 pm**

Here's a good read again on FEL v MEL for anyone interested: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=119. I have also never heard of FEL automatically being 422, would like a source for that if it's true.

For those asking what the "best" profile is when it comes to creating your remuxes, the simple answer is if your device can play it, then 7 because that's what the original profile on the disc is. Theoretically, if you're converting from 7MEL to single layer 8, it should be the same, because the EL contains no extra picture data. But if you're going from 7FEL to single layer 8, then you're literally discarding additional data that's used to recreate the original image. This is all a bit moot at this point though since no streaming-only devices today can properly play FEL titles. These devices simply don't have the capability to instantiate the two simultaneous HEVC decoders that's needed for FEL playback. This includes the Shield Pro, where even though it's able to playback FEL, it's not doing it properly.

With all that said, don't do needless conversions for the sake of obtaining a "better" profile. Do conversions only if your device is not capable of playing something without it. E.g. for the shield, just take what makemkv 1.15.4 gives you, it's that simple.

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:20 pm**

dapope wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:04 pm
AVS Forums. Sounds like the update is only in Korea for now, last time I think it took a day to release elsewhere but I think it's been two days now. Wait a week and read the AVS LG thread to monitor for deficiencies I suppose.

Thanks, been reading around. Supposedly this also fixes the ‘raised black’ issue so if that’s true I’m very keen to try it out

If it can also play DL mp4, that will be amazing too. Will wait it out a bit before installing though - but as soon as I do I’ll give the test files another go

Posted: **Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:53 pm**

shawnc22 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:19 pm Here's a good read again on FEL v MEL for anyone interested: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=119. I have also never heard of FEL automatically being 422, would like a source for that if it's true.

For those asking what the "best" profile is when it comes to creating your remuxes, the simple answer is if your device can play it, then 7 because that's what the original profile on the disc is. Theoretically, if you're converting from 7MEL to single layer 8, it should be the same, because the EL contains no extra picture data. But if you're going from 7FEL to single layer 8, then you're literally discarding additional data that's used to recreate the original image. This is all a bit moot at this point though since no streaming-only devices today can properly play FEL titles. These devices simply don't have the capability to instantiate the two simultaneous HEVC decoders that's needed for FEL playback. This includes the Shield Pro, where even though it's able to playback FEL, it's not doing it properly.

With all that said, don't need do needless conversions for the sake of obtaining a "better" profile. Do conversions only if your device is not capable of playing something without it. E.g. for the shield, just take what makemkv 1.15.4 gives you, it's that simple.

I did a quick read on that link.
So in both cases the Enhanced layer of the disc will create a 12 bit picture.
But if it's a FEL it should make sure to uplift the 1000nits base layer to a a 4000nits final 12bit picture.
Where as MEL (profile 5 or

will only create a 12bit picture but not 4000 nits.

However they also mention newer movies from 2019 which already have a base layer being 4000nits..
That would mean that MEL should be sufficient right?

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