www.makemkv.com

SamuriHL wrote:I just watched Skyfall last night on the SHIELD and I concur with the red push everywhere. The SHIELD just doesn't want to play nice.

Do people still have faith that Nvidia will get this figured out eventually? I really want to sell off my OPPO and combine my libraries....

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Truly unknown. We're not sure exactly what the issue is that's causing it. It's very possible the SHIELD just doesn't support decoding the parts of the DV spec that UHD is using. In which case, nope, it'll never get fixed. It's designed to play streaming DV content which is encoded differently than UHD DV content. All we can do is keep reporting it to them until they tell us to go away.

SamuriHL wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:35 pm Truly unknown. We're not sure exactly what the issue is that's causing it. It's very possible the SHIELD just doesn't support decoding the parts of the DV spec that UHD is using. In which case, nope, it'll never get fixed. It's designed to play streaming DV content which is encoded differently than UHD DV content. All we can do is keep reporting it to them until they tell us to go away.

Would comparing UHD DV to a streamed DV counter part help? I mean if the streamed DV counter part looks correct then I agree we have no chance of this getting fixed.

Or is it not that simple and comparing some streamed content to say the X700 not really help? That said, I’m struggling to think of a title we could even use too

PlatypusW wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:12 pm
Would comparing UHD DV to a streamed DV counter part help? I mean if the streamed DV counter part looks correct then I agree we have no chance of this getting fixed.

Or is it not that simple and comparing some streamed content to say the X700 not really help? That said, I’m struggling to think of a title we could even use too

I already did that comparison. the streamed content doesn't have the red push issue.

https://slow.pics/c/TYFydU4s


But the fact that the Firestick TV is able to play UHD-BD rip properly is encouraging. I believe Nvidia can fix that issue.

PlatypusW wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:12 pm

SamuriHL wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:35 pm Truly unknown. We're not sure exactly what the issue is that's causing it. It's very possible the SHIELD just doesn't support decoding the parts of the DV spec that UHD is using. In which case, nope, it'll never get fixed. It's designed to play streaming DV content which is encoded differently than UHD DV content. All we can do is keep reporting it to them until they tell us to go away.

Would comparing UHD DV to a streamed DV counter part help? I mean if the streamed DV counter part looks correct then I agree we have no chance of this getting fixed.

Or is it not that simple and comparing some streamed content to say the X700 not really help? That said, I’m struggling to think of a title we could even use too

RESET_9999 did a lot of these kinds of comparisons and the issue is absolutely there on UHD sources but not for streaming. I can confirm the same with my own equipment. My x700 is in the other room on my 3D plasma so I've not done any comparisons with it, but, I do have my UB820 to compare to and there is a difference. The SHIELD just can't play these UHD sources without red push issues.

I've not played on the firestick yet but that requires FEL->MEL conversion. Once that process gets nailed down by you adventurous people, maybe Mike can add an option to do so in MakeMKV to make it seamless. I should try a couple of my MEL movies with plex on the firestick and see how that goes. That'd be nice.

RESET_9999 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:28 pm my friend had some LLDV tonemapped to SDR capture samples for me today. Good news for the Firestick Tv owners, it looks like it does DV the right way even though I see a small difference on white in the comparison #1 compared to the x700.


x700 vs shield vs firestick vs Chromecast. (use number keys on your keyboard to switch between the image)
https://slow.pics/c/QBBIxewf

SKYFALL MEL DV.... 3 comparisons of each device:

x700 vs Firestick: https://screenshotcomparison.com/compar ... /picture:2

x700 vs Shield: https://screenshotcomparison.com/compar ... /picture:2

x700 vs Chromecast: https://screenshotcomparison.com/compar ... /picture:2

Firestick vs Shield: https://screenshotcomparison.com/compar ... /picture:2

Shield = worse of all, oversaturation and ugly red artifacts everywhere. -----> btw I didn't look for a movie with artifacts, I took the first MEL movie I found and it still had red artifacts.
Chromecast = oversaturation but no red artifacts.


Spears and Munsil, x700 Original MEL vs FEL to mel conversion: https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/7017


same method:
-all the players send LLDV.
-Vertex tone map DV to SDR using the same settings.
- The signal is captured using the same settings.

Is the firestick only capable of LLDV? Is that why it was used or was it a TV limitation? It's really too bad that the firestick can't handle lossless audio. That's more of a deal breaker for me than the seemingly better DV implementation.

shawnc22 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:01 pm
Is the firestick only capable of LLDV? Is that why it was used or was it a TV limitation? It's really too bad that the firestick can't handle lossless audio. That's more of a deal breaker for me than the seemingly better DV implementation.

Wait it can't do lossless audio?? Yea, ok, that's a deal breaker for me as well. Damn. (You can tell how much I've used my firestick LOL)

shawnc22 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:01 pm
Is the firestick only capable of LLDV? Is that why it was used or was it a TV limitation? It's really too bad that the firestick can't handle lossless audio. That's more of a deal breaker for me than the seemingly better DV implementation.

@manix could probably explain it better but i think it's because the capture card need to receive a decoded 422 signal in order to properly capture it. This is also how the vertex 2 allows LLDV tonemapping to any HDR10 display.
i dont know much about the process, i only did the screenshot comparisons with the sample he provided.

SamuriHL wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:45 pm I've not played on the firestick yet but that requires FEL->MEL conversion. Once that process gets nailed down by you adventurous people, maybe Mike can add an option to do so in MakeMKV to make it seamless. I should try a couple of my MEL movies with plex on the firestick and see how that goes. That'd be nice.

I compared the firestick vs shield on Panasonic GZ2000 oled and could not see any red push or colour saturation.
Firestick at moment is better than shield IMHO.

SamuriHL wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:15 pm

shawnc22 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:01 pm
It's really too bad that the firestick can't handle lossless audio. That's more of a deal breaker for me than the seemingly better DV implementation.

Wait it can't do lossless audio?? Yea, ok, that's a deal breaker for me as well. Damn. (You can tell how much I've used my firestick LOL)

also no 24/23hz support on plex i think ?

so it's either:

1- shield dv issues + lossless audio + plex library
2- Firestick proper dv + no lossless audio + plex library
3- x700 / oppo proper dv + lossless audio + no plex library

one day, hopefully, we can get a device that can do it all.. i bet it will end up being an HTPC

RESET_9999 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:34 pm

also no 24/23hz support on plex i think ?

Firestick supports 24/23hz on plex.

ragico wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:51 pm

RESET_9999 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:34 pm

also no 24/23hz support on plex i think ?

Firestick supports 24/23hz on plex.

Currently you have to disable the firestick's own refresh rate matching and enable Plex's to get DoVi from Plex. Otherwise it's not consistent.
Haven't verified but it seems to switch the display just fine.

quietvoid wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:57 pm

ragico wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:51 pm

RESET_9999 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:34 pm

also no 24/23hz support on plex i think ?

Firestick supports 24/23hz on plex.

Currently you have to disable the firestick's own refresh rate matching and enable Plex's to get DoVi from Plex. Otherwise it's not consistent.
Haven't verified but it seems to switch the display just fine.

I have not disabled firestick own refresh rate, It is enabled. Never a problem.

A note about the phrase "LLDV", since you use it recently:
- this is a mode of the display device and not the player, nor the file!
- although the player triggers it based on its setting (e.g. Oppo)
- it has nothing to do with the content itself (can be MEL/FEL DV)

In LLDV mode of a display device it disables its certain image processings (that are enabled otherwise) to reduce latency between itself and the "player" device. This can result in banding/posterization, especially with low bitrate DV content, such as streaming profile 5 MEL DV.
Hence it's not desirable at all to use LLDV mode when watching DV video content.

For example, Sony Oleds don't have full DV support, only LLDV. Even Vincent recently stated the above issues in his late Sony reviews.
Other Oleds that have full DV implementation (LG, Panasonic, Philips) can be set into LLDV mode, e.g. by enabling player-led DV processing on Oppo.