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Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:43 am**

RESET_9999 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:25 pm one more comparison: https://slow.pics/c/TyeCCLDz

no doubt in my mind, it's not identical. at least not from X700 vs Shield

Did you notice a difference between profiles too?

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:46 am**

RESET_9999 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:10 am after more comparisons with my TV internal app and the x700, I now believe the Shield actually output over-saturated color in DV.
I suspect it's because they send a bt2020 rgb 8bit signalwhile the x700 and the appleTV send RGB 8 bit ( no color primaries signaled).

Netflix Stranger Things DV comparisons

Shield vs LG C8 TV: https://slow.pics/c/ah3JaROY

x700 vs LG C8: https://slow.pics/c/Stl6kE9t

x700 vs Shield: https://slow.pics/c/K3bky83X

P-S: before you ask, yes my shield is up to date

Interesting, I wonder if anyone has filed a bug report on the shield forum, maybe it's a simple fix in firmware

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:12 am**

FusionNeo wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 am Decided to get an X700. Used it to watch Casino Royale. Wow! It looked phenomenal, especially the intro montage.

I am seeing the same issue where I can only play a single TS file at a time. After that when attempting to play back the file there’s a giant red or green box overlaid on top of the screen. My solution to that has been a smart plug so I can turn it off with an app or with a voice assistant and turn it back on, so it really doesn’t bother me too much. I have confirmed that doing it this way leads to playback working again. Hey, as long as I don’t have to get up and physically unplug a cord, it’s worth it.

Had no problems with FF/RW. I read this on another forum, it was related to the M9702 but they experienced the same issue with FF/RW.

“ DVDFab 11.x Fastforward and rewind is broken if any Dolby Vision UHD BD is remuxed down to the main movie. They are aware of this bug. Going fastfoward past 2X speed will stop playback.

Please use CloneBD to remux any Dolby Vision UHD BD.
You might be experiencing that bug or..
DVDFab chose the wrong mpls. The main movie Titles without chapters.

Or, it was a bad DVDFab decrypt to clone/copy whole disc. Again, use CloneBD.
I think its a better, free, trustworthy software.”

Just curious if those people having trouble with FF/RW ripped with DVDFab.

Also, I had no issues with streaming Casino Royale from my PC to the X700 via Ethernet. I am sure there will be some films where there may be an issue but with this particular film it was flawless playback. Even paused it a few times and resumed without issue.

All in all I would say the X700 is definitely worth it if you’ve been chasing Dolby Vision for a while and just want a device that can play it back. It’s an incredibly niche use case, but we’re a niche audience!

————

Regarding yusesope’s tool, I honestly think his files are created correctly and he deserves a huge round of applause. I suspect the issue is on the client’s end based on everything that has been reported. Either way, absolutely stunning work on his part and his contributions to this effort of Dolby Vision playback have been immense, so I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you’ve done and continue to do for us.

Completely agree, his tool is amazing and to reverse engineer such a complex process is genius.

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:20 am**

RESET_9999 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:10 am after more comparisons with my TV internal app and the x700, I now believe the Shield actually output over-saturated color in DV.
I suspect it's because they send a bt2020 rgb 8bit signalwhile the x700 and the appleTV send RGB 8 bit ( no color primaries signaled).

Netflix Stranger Things DV comparisons

Shield vs LG C8 TV: https://slow.pics/c/ah3JaROY

x700 vs LG C8: https://slow.pics/c/Stl6kE9t

x700 vs Shield: https://slow.pics/c/K3bky83X

P-S: before you ask, yes my shield is up to date

This is very interesting

C8 and x700 are identical

Shield has the problem

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:29 am**

built_to_chill wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:25 am
RESET_9999 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:10 am after more comparisons with my TV internal app and the x700, I now believe the Shield actually output over-saturated color in DV.
I suspect it's because they send a bt2020 rgb 8bit signalwhile the x700 and the appleTV send RGB 8 bit ( no color primaries signaled).

Netflix Stranger Things DV comparisons

Shield vs LG C8 TV: https://slow.pics/c/ah3JaROY

x700 vs LG C8: https://slow.pics/c/Stl6kE9t

x700 vs Shield: https://slow.pics/c/K3bky83X

P-S: before you ask, yes my shield is up to date
That's interesting. FWIW - and that is probably very little since this is very much "hearsay" - my pro calibrator (who is well qualified and does a lot of stuff for commercial Movie/TV productions as well as consult TV manufacturers) was negative about the implementation of DV in the 2019 SHIELD. We didn't discuss in any detail (because I had decided not to buy one) but I wonder if this is what he was referring to.

Maybe I don't understand you because English is not my languague, but you say you know a person who has knowledge in this area, you know what he thinks about DV in Sony TVs? all I have read is that it is more darkness than other manufacturers

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:49 am**

Arbigator wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:26 am
Have you tried setting the Shield's output to YUV 4:2:0 10 bit or YUV 4:2:2 12 bit rather than RGB 8 bit? I could definitely see things looking different if not set to YUV.

My shield is always set to 422 12bits bt2020 HDR10 and DV ready but It doesn't matter in what mode the shield is. DV is always sent in an RGB 8 bit container.

DV in 422 12bit (LLDV) is a mode that was made only for the Sony TV.

DV in a RGB 8 bit container is not better or worse than LLDV. both are the same and both are 12bits.

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:07 pm**

hepe9 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:06 pm @LucasSimba you tried the clips posted for @yusesope?

To see if you have the same results

I tried with the Sony player and the "dvdfab" works but wrongs colors and the other 2 no DV and play in fast speed

I have tried the clips posted by @yusesope on a Sony XF9005; results below.

Plex:

Joker_dvhe.04.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors (the light bulbs around the mirror are all red).
Joker_dvhe.05.06_BL_RPU_Single_Track_Single_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_Double_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.

Video Player:

Joker_dvhe.04.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.
Joker_dvhe.05.06_BL_RPU_Single_Track_Single_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_Double_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:09 pm**

Here are some considerations on the images posted by RESET_9999 (which I continue to thank)

Let's start by looking at the pictures on the PLEX forum (HERE)

The peculiar behavior of the red and blue channels immediately catches the eye. In the Single Layer version, if you look at the region of the histogram lights there is no information relating to the two previous channels with the result that the green color predominates in the image (giving this greenish halo)

Now let's move on to Netflix and RESET_9999 images.

The behavior of blue is almost identical. Green and red (mostly red) tend to shift towards midtones making the image appear "more saturated"

Now let's move on to the X700 which plays a DV Dual Track Dual Layer file and the Shield which instead plays one of my files (dvhe.07.06 Single Track Dual Layer).

Do you notice any similarities with Netflix images?
I see the same behavior as before and in any case totally different from the images on the PLEX forum.

Clearly the analysis is not valid because each test should be carried out with the same camera, the same TV, the same player, etc ... but ... but ...

Different devices give a different "footprint" to the videos they play.
Perhaps what RESET_9999 has noticed is simply the normal behavior of the Shield.

And if Netflix videos are displayed in the same way as mine, then Netflix is also using streams with the wrong colors ...

smartrobot wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:35 am FFMPEG output warnings

Code: Select all

[NULL @ 0x5568201f5c80] Invalid NAL unit 36, skipping.
[NULL @ 0x5568201f6e40] Invalid NAL unit 36, skipping.

yusesope output

Code: Select all

___@little-server:~/src$ python3 bl_el_rpu_builder.py -tbw 4 -bl ~/BL.hevc -el ~/EL.hevc -o ~/Out.hvec
Exception in thread Thread-1:LYSIS: 86.8%     BL_EL_RPU WRITING: 86.0%
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3.6/threading.py", line 916, in _bootstrap_inner
    self.run()
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 175, in run
    self.read()
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 163, in read
    self.get_nal_info(mm,length,global_offset)
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 138, in get_nal_info
    nal_type = self.get_nal_type(mmap_obj[(nal_offset + 3):(nal_offset + 5)])
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 128, in get_nal_type
    nuh_layer_id = b_stream.read('uint:6')
  File "/home/nick/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/bitstring.py", line 3902, in read
    value, self._pos = self._readtoken(name, self._pos, length)
  File "/home/nick/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/bitstring.py", line 2016, in _readtoken
    "Tried to read {0} bits when only {1} available.".format(int(length), self.length - pos))
bitstring.ReadError: Reading off the end of the data. Tried to read 6 bits when only 1 available.

Exception in thread Thread-2:LYSIS: 92.4%     BL_EL_RPU WRITING: 91.3%
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3.6/threading.py", line 916, in _bootstrap_inner
    self.run()
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 175, in run
    self.read()
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 163, in read
    self.get_nal_info(mm,length,global_offset)
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 138, in get_nal_info
    nal_type = self.get_nal_type(mmap_obj[(nal_offset + 3):(nal_offset + 5)])
  File "bl_el_rpu_builder.py", line 128, in get_nal_type
    nuh_layer_id = b_stream.read('uint:6')
  File "~/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/bitstring.py", line 3902, in read
    value, self._pos = self._readtoken(name, self._pos, length)
  File "~/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/bitstring.py", line 2016, in _readtoken
    "Tried to read {0} bits when only {1} available.".format(int(length), self.length - pos))
bitstring.ReadError: Reading off the end of the data. Tried to read 6 bits when only 1 available.

BL ANALYSIS: 99.3%     EL ANALYSIS: 99.3%     BL_EL_RPU WRITING: 99.3%

There appear to be incorrect NAL units in your stream (as ffmpeg has pointed out to you).
If you analyze a stream like this with my program, you will surely get errors: it is a very simple tool that does not have the ability to handle unexpected errors.
The tool expects to receive a perfect stream ...

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:11 pm**

baker99 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:46 am
Interesting, I wonder if anyone has filed a bug report on the shield forum, maybe it's a simple fix in firmware

yep, it must be fixable with a firmware update. I hope they will because now i have to plug back my appleTV for Neflix in DV+Atmos, was about to sell it... smfh

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:17 pm**

yusesope wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:09 pm

And if Netflix videos are displayed in the same way as mine, then Netflix is also using streams with the wrong colors ...

I used the real untouched download from netflix server for the test.. It looks like a real profile 5 file to me.

Code: Select all

Complete name                            : D:\Stranger.Things.S03.DV\1.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42/dby1)
File size                                : 5.92 GiB
Duration                                 : 50 min 33 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 16.8 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-08-10 03:07:48
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-08-10 03:07:48

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5@Main
HDR format                               : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.05.06, BL+RPU
Codec ID                                 : dvhe
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding with Dolby Vision
Duration                                 : 50 min 33 s
Bit rate                                 : 15.5 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 37.3 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.078
Stream size                              : 5.47 GiB (92%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-07-08 20:48:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-08-10 03:08:04
Color range                              : Full
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC+dvcC

if I play the file in mpc-be, madvr cannot detect the color primaries or matrix and output weird color which I believe is normal for a profile 5.6 BL+rpu file

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:31 pm**

RESET_9999 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:17 pm
yusesope wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:09 pm

And if Netflix videos are displayed in the same way as mine, then Netflix is also using streams with the wrong colors ...

I used the real untouched download from netflix server for the test.. It looks like a real profile 5 file to me.

I do not doubt it.
Mine was a joke.
If the color output is similar to my files, there are two things:

my files are correct

Netflix is streamming files with the wrong colors (joke)

I am Italian, it doesn't take me much to laugh

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:53 pm**

hepe9 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:29 am
built_to_chill wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:25 am
RESET_9999 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:10 am after more comparisons with my TV internal app and the x700, I now believe the Shield actually output over-saturated color in DV.
I suspect it's because they send a bt2020 rgb 8bit signalwhile the x700 and the appleTV send RGB 8 bit ( no color primaries signaled).

Netflix Stranger Things DV comparisons

Shield vs LG C8 TV: https://slow.pics/c/ah3JaROY

x700 vs LG C8: https://slow.pics/c/Stl6kE9t

x700 vs Shield: https://slow.pics/c/K3bky83X

P-S: before you ask, yes my shield is up to date
That's interesting. FWIW - and that is probably very little since this is very much "hearsay" - my pro calibrator (who is well qualified and does a lot of stuff for commercial Movie/TV productions as well as consult TV manufacturers) was negative about the implementation of DV in the 2019 SHIELD. We didn't discuss in any detail (because I had decided not to buy one) but I wonder if this is what he was referring to.
Maybe I don't understand you because English is not my languague, but you say you know a person who has knowledge in this area, you know what he thinks about DV in Sony TVs? all I have read is that it is more darkness than other manufacturers

It’s off the topic of this thread, and I’d be doing a dis-service to my calibrator to go into details about how he achieves what he does (it’s a professional service) but Dolby Vision on my Sony AF9 was dramatically improved by calibration.

I wasn’t fussed about Dolby Vision vs HDR10 before calibration (I often found DV a bit dark) and this is why I was happy archiving my UHDs in a way that I expected would only ever allow HDR10. But that all changed post calibration. So no - DV is not “broken” on Sony, I know this does get banded about. However, in my experience calibration made a massive difference - much brighter and punchier afterward, and now there is a clear difference between HDR10 and DV. I am now firmly of the opinion that when investing in an OLED, one should budget an extra 10% or so for calibration. These are very expensive TVs - we buy them for accuracy, shadow detail etc, but - again in my experience - calibration takes it to another level.

I mention my TVs model number because it allows 20pt correction (not sure if earlier Sony models do). I also stress the importance of finding a skilled calibrator who knows what they are doing to achieve this. For anyone in the U.K. who’s interested I used “display and sound calibration” (easy to google). I believe the only ISF level 3 certified calibrator in the U.K.

Back to Sony TVs... I’d also briefly add that some well respect calibrators at AVS (DNice and jrref) have compared 2019 Sony OLEDs against other brands (post calibration) side by side and reported Dolby vision is identical.

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:05 pm**

yusesope wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:31 pm
RESET_9999 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:17 pm
yusesope wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:09 pm

And if Netflix videos are displayed in the same way as mine, then Netflix is also using streams with the wrong colors ...

I used the real untouched download from netflix server for the test.. It looks like a real profile 5 file to me.
I do not doubt it.
Mine was a joke.
If the color output is similar to my files, there are two things:
my files are correct

Netflix is streamming files with the wrong colors (joke)
I am Italian, it doesn't take me much to laugh

haha ok I'm no English native as well so i don't get all the jokes in english

and yes, I think your files might be right. I wish i could compare them with my x700.
I'll try to compare your samples on my TV internal apps but i cannot forward frame by frame like i can with the x700,so its hard to pause at the same place.

I dont say that i dont believe your test result. It's just that I prefer the screenshot comparison(when done properly) as they are not subjective.

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:38 pm**

codeXRes wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:07 pm
hepe9 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:06 pm @LucasSimba you tried the clips posted for @yusesope?

To see if you have the same results

I tried with the Sony player and the "dvdfab" works but wrongs colors and the other 2 no DV and play in fast speed
I have tried the clips posted by @yusesope on a Sony XF9005; results below.

Plex:

Joker_dvhe.04.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors (the light bulbs around the mirror are all red).
Joker_dvhe.05.06_BL_RPU_Single_Track_Single_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_Double_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.

Video Player:

Joker_dvhe.04.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.
Joker_dvhe.05.06_BL_RPU_Single_Track_Single_Layer.mp4 - DV Logo but over saturated colors.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_BL_EL_RPU_Single_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.
Joker_dvhe.07.06_Double_Track_Double_Layer.mp4 - No DV Logo; played as HDR.

So we can say the owners of this TV we can't do nothing

PD: thanks for the test

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:44 pm**

built_to_chill wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:53 pm
hepe9 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:29 am
built_to_chill wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:25 am

That's interesting. FWIW - and that is probably very little since this is very much "hearsay" - my pro calibrator (who is well qualified and does a lot of stuff for commercial Movie/TV productions as well as consult TV manufacturers) was negative about the implementation of DV in the 2019 SHIELD. We didn't discuss in any detail (because I had decided not to buy one) but I wonder if this is what he was referring to.
Maybe I don't understand you because English is not my languague, but you say you know a person who has knowledge in this area, you know what he thinks about DV in Sony TVs? all I have read is that it is more darkness than other manufacturers
It’s off the topic of this thread, and I’d be doing a dis-service to my calibrator to go into details about how he achieves what he does (it’s a professional service) but Dolby Vision on my Sony AF9 was dramatically improved by calibration.

I wasn’t fussed about Dolby Vision vs HDR10 before calibration (I often found DV a bit dark) and this is why I was happy archiving my UHDs in a way that I expected would only ever allow HDR10. But that all changed post calibration. So no - DV is not “broken” on Sony, I know this does get banded about. However, in my experience calibration made a massive difference - much brighter and punchier afterward, and now there is a clear difference between HDR10 and DV. I am now firmly of the opinion that when investing in an OLED, one should budget an extra 10% or so for calibration. These are very expensive TVs - we buy them for accuracy, shadow detail etc, but - again in my experience - calibration takes it to another level.

I mention my TVs model number because it allows 20pt correction (not sure if earlier Sony models do). I also stress the importance of finding a skilled calibrator who knows what they are doing to achieve this. For anyone in the U.K. who’s interested I used “display and sound calibration” (easy to google). I believe the only ISF level 3 certified calibrator in the U.K.

Back to Sony TVs... I’d also briefly add that some well respect calibrators at AVS (DNice and jrref) have compared 2019 Sony OLEDs against other brands (post calibration) side by side and reported Dolby vision is identical.

I don't have an Oled

I have a Led, specifically XF9005

www.makemkv.com

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