Avatar forced subs

[dodge586]

Hi,
Still learning my way around the whole blu ray to MKV area. Done a few rips but now I’ve hit a problem with Avatar. Done some searching and found that some other people seem to have experienced difficulty but definitive answers seem to be a bit thin on the ground.

I ripped the disc using anydvd and then pointed MakeMKV at the index. I selected DTS-HD and DTS 3/2+1 English as my audio.
I only want the forced subs – the bits where the Avatars are talking amongst themselves so I selected English (forced only) subs.

However when playing back in media player/classic or Power DVD 10 I don’t get any subs at all.

I’ve clearly missed a trick but what is it?

Is this a problem specific to Avatar? Or am I likely to encounter it again when I want forced subs.

For the record I’ve also tried ripping the full English subtitles and still get nothing. I’m using Haali media splitter and I’ve selected the subs there but still nothing.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks
James

[skittle]

You dont need to use (in fact it is not recommended at all) anydvd, makemkv can rip the disk its self.

Avatar is one disk that is known to work with forced subtitles option.
Please post mediainfo output from your file.
Also if not already update to latest mpc-hc: http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/

[dodge586]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have tried letting MakeMKV rip and encode the disc (no anyDVD at all) and selected only forced English subs. This makes no difference. This is the media info output:
General
Complete name : D:\bd rip\MKV\make\title00.mkv
Format : Matroska
File size : 39.4 GiB
Duration : 2h 41mn
Overall bit rate : 34.9 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-10-24 11:49:57
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.6.2 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.6.2 (0.7.7/0.8.1) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@4.1
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 41mn
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : MA
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 41mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Video delay : -9ms
Title : Losless
Language : English

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 41mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Video delay : -9ms
Stream size : 1.71 GiB (4%)
Title : 3/2+1
Language : English

Audio #3
ID : 4
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 2h 41mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Video delay : -9ms
Stream size : 518 MiB (1%)
Title : 3/2+1
Language : Spanish

Text
ID : 5
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English

I am using Media player classic 1.3.1264.0 which I know is not the latest version, I did try the latest 1.4.2499.0 64 bit version but things got worse, no audio at all and no subtitles and it was playing too fast!

The only partial success I have had is demuxing the original m2ts with TSMuxer and using clownBD to extract the Subtitles_9_English.sup then use BDSup2Sub to export only the forced subs as an IDX file.

Then I open the MKV in MKVVerge and MUX in the IDX file.

This appears to work when I use Mediaplayer classic.

I suspect what im doing is not the best solution nor the most compatible - for example I don't get subs in when I use windows media player 1.3.1264.0.
Is there a way I can burn the subtitles in so that they will appear in all players/devices?

Thanks
James

[zprewitt]

Having the same problem. Ripped with English Forced Only subs. I am using PS3 Media Server. There were only two forced sub tracks available, and when it was finished ripping, the output log said that both tracks were empty.


General
Complete name : F:\Video\Movies\Avatar - Extended Director's Cut.mkv
Format : Matroska
File size : 31.2 GiB
Duration : 2h 58mn
Overall bit rate : 25.1 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-12-29 02:55:28
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.6.3 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.6.3 (0.7.7/0.8.1) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 58mn
Bit rate : 23.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.464
Stream size : 28.7 GiB (92%)
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 58mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Video delay : -9ms
Stream size : 1.88 GiB (6%)
Title : 3/2+1
Language : English

[setarip_old]

@ziprewitt

Hi!

If I remember correctly, the subs are hardcoded (part of the video).

Have you played your rip, to see if they appear? (There are only a few brief moments where "other than English" is spoken)

[zprewitt]

Yup, and they do not appear.I tried playing from the Transcode folder as well.

[cozzmo]

@ziprewitt

Hi!

If I remember correctly, the subs are hardcoded (part of the video).

Have you played your rip, to see if they appear? (There are only a few brief moments where "other than English" is spoken)

They are defiintely not hardcoded for Avatar.

[dtblair]

I have ripped Avatar and the forced subs appear in both MPC-HC and JRiver (DirectShow filters). The subs are not hardcoded but for me, they appear as the second subtitle stream. The first is full captioned. When I rip from the original disk, I always choose both the forced and full subtitle option to make sure I get any forced subs. It is not a big deal to choose the correct stream in most players. If you are using MPC-HC then make sure you have turned on the subtitle options in the ffdshow video decoder

[dtblair]

Here is the media info from the extended Avatar version:


UniqueID : 187982703751885276155392644855409104638 (0x8D6C26DD8FCACBE4898D5000B49756FE)
Complete name : U:\Avatar Extended Edition.mkv
Format : Matroska
File size : 37.5 GiB
Duration : 2h 58mn
Overall bit rate : 30.1 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-11-26 06:15:57
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.6.2 win(x86-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.6.2 (0.7.7/0.8.1) win(x86-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 58mn
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Language : English

Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : MA
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 58mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Video delay : -9ms
Title : Losless
Language : English

Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 58mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Video delay : -9ms
Stream size : 1.88 GiB (5%)
Title : 3/2+1
Language : English

Audio #3
ID : 4
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 2h 58mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Video delay : -9ms
Stream size : 571 MiB (1%)
Title : 3/2+1
Language : English

Audio #4
ID : 5
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 2h 58mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Video delay : -9ms
Stream size : 571 MiB (1%)
Title : 3/2+1
Language : English

Text #1
ID : 6
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English

Text #2
ID : 8
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English

[cozzmo]

I am using Media player classic 1.3.1264.0 which I know is not the latest version, I did try the latest 1.4.2499.0 64 bit version but things got worse, no audio at all and no subtitles and it was playing too fast!

The only partial success I have had is demuxing the original m2ts with TSMuxer and using clownBD to extract the Subtitles_9_English.sup then use BDSup2Sub to export only the forced subs as an IDX file.

Then I open the MKV in MKVVerge and MUX in the IDX file.

This appears to work when I use Mediaplayer classic.

I suspect what im doing is not the best solution nor the most compatible - for example I don't get subs in when I use windows media player 1.3.1264.0.
Is there a way I can burn the subtitles in so that they will appear in all players/devices?

Thanks
James

James, i had problems running BDSup2Sub, it would crash for me. Does using that program retain the original font of the subtitles? or does it use a generic font? I ended up using SupRip 1.6 to make an SRT file, but it uses a generic font (however it does work fine).

The main way i've seen about burning the subs in involves AV Synth scripts being run to combine it with the video, but that's a little beyond me despite how 'simple' it apparently is. I would really like to be able to preserve the original font if i can though.

[setarip_old]

Just as a point of information - The font used in "Avatar" is named "Papyrus"...

[maretedkatiegrace]

your anydvd software produced errors. There is more than 1 sub in avatar. Your notes show only 1 srt file w the video. Some that came w the bluray of Avatar are english, some are forced alien language, some are the producers commenting on production during the video. Most ripping software does an extremely poor job of identifying first then getting the forced one, despite the dvd or bluray have scripting when it first plays in a player that says which pgs to use as sustitle if the region is north america. dvdfab also does not handle forced subs well at all. Nor does makemkv. The only real solution is to bring them all over in the rip, as separate srt files and NOT rolled into the makemkv file. then you will end up w a mkv video file, and 3-4 srt files. Then open each srt file into notepad to see it. its just a bunch of timestamps as text strings and text to use in quotes. The one you do not want as forced subs will have tons of english in it, for every scene. The one that is forced usually has only a handful of lines and hr/minute/second stamps. you can use the time shown in it to peek at that part if the movie to maje sure it is right if you want.
Then use mkvtoolbix to open your video, then open the srt files into mkvtoolbix, all the files related to the one movie will all be laid out. then tell it which one you want to flag as forced sub, and drag it as the first sub. Flags you can assign are in upper right. Have only one srt or pgs as the default sub and flag it as forced if you want it to automatially use it when playing. I usually add all the srt files. you can name them in mkvtoolnix, like “Forced English”, “English Subs”, “French Subs” etc.
then remux it, it will create a new Mkv file with the correct info in the file header to allow players to identify the firced subs correctly and auto play them, assuming your streamer or player is told to auto play forced subs.

one problem with allowing makemkv to just bring all subs over rolled into the video is that there will NOT be a fkag that says which one is forced when a player sees the file. And, you cant see the text in the subs once it is rolled into the video, so if you try bringing it into mkvtoolnix that way, you will still see all the subs and you can move one as the furst and flag it as firced but you wont know which sub is the forced one to add the flag to.