Progressive Video Output for DVDs

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cstern
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:45 am

Progressive Video Output for DVDs

#1 Post by cstern » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:14 am

Is there any option to instruct MakeMKV to output progressive video for progressive DVDs? Based on my research, most commercial Hollywood DVDs are encoded in a progressive format. The film to NTSC 3:2 pulldown process creates an additional frame (2 fields) for every group of 4 film frames (8 fields) to convert from 24 fps to 30 fps as NTSC requires. But in most cases, the NTSC interlaced video format is not directly encoded onto the DVD. Rather, only the 8 original fields from the film frames are encoded, and the DVD uses pulldown flags to instruct the player which 2 fields to duplicate to construct the NTSC interlaced output in real time during playback. Conversely, this same information on the DVD can be used by progressive DVD players to output a 24p video.

Based on my experience, MakeMKV always outputs 30 fps NTSC video, even for progressive-encoded DVDs. That is, it obeys the pulldown flags. I've been using an inverse telecine filterchain in ffmpeg to reverse the interlacing and reconstruct the original progressive frames. It's successful most of the time, but I would prefer if MakeMKV could output progressive video to avoid the hassle altogether. Is this possible?
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Woodstock
Posts: 10293
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 pm

Re: Progressive Video Output for DVDs

#2 Post by Woodstock » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:33 pm

MakeMKV outputs what is on the disk. DVDs are, by standard, interlaced video.

You can post-process the video to attempt to remove the interlacing, but MakeMKV is always going to copy what is on the disk itself.
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dcoke22
Posts: 3049
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:25 pm

Re: Progressive Video Output for DVDs

#3 Post by dcoke22 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:59 pm

I've used MakeMKV to rip DVDs that are both interlaced and progressive. It really does just copy whatever is on the disc. Looking at representative examples in MediaInfo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaInfo) you can tell the difference it seems.

Progressive example:

Code: Select all

Video
ID                                       : 1
ID in the original source medium         : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info                            : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration                                 : 1 h 56 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 5 198 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 9 800 kb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS
Original frame rate                      : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.627
Stream size                              : 4.21 GiB (86%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Original source medium                   : DVD-Video
Interlaced example:

Code: Select all

Video
ID                                       : 1
ID in the original source medium         : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info                            : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration                                 : 45 min 45 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 4 283 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 9 800 kb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.414
Time code of first frame                 : 00:59:59;00
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
Stream size                              : 1.37 GiB (87%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Original source medium                   : DVD-Video
You can see in the interlaced example that the scan type is listed as Interlaced. There's no such reference on the progressive example.
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preserve
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Progressive Video Output for DVDs

#4 Post by preserve » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:33 am

dcoke22 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:59 pm
You can see in the interlaced example that the scan type is listed as Interlaced. There's no such reference on the progressive example.
I can confirm, although my MediaInfo does list Scan Type as Progressive when appropriate. Meant to post an example in the other related thread on this... I have a lot of titles that are progressive. And stepping frame by frame without any processing, I can clearly see when it’s interlaced or progressive.
Using: ASUS BW-16D1HT 3.00
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preserve
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Progressive Video Output for DVDs

#5 Post by preserve » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:56 pm

Here's just one random example:

Image
Using: ASUS BW-16D1HT 3.00
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Scavenger
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 1:48 pm

Re: Progressive Video Output for DVDs

#6 Post by Scavenger » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:40 pm

You can remove the soft-pulldown flags with tsMuxeR. Then remux in mkvtoolnix with framerate set to 24000/1001p.

Before

Code: Select all

Video
ID                                       : 1
ID in the original source medium         : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info                            : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration                                 : 1 h 30 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 8 000 kb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Scan order                               : 2:3 Pulldown
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.965
Time code of first frame                 : 01:00:00:00
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
Stream size                              : 5.04 GiB (90%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Original source medium                   : DVD-Video
After

Code: Select all

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings                          : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info                            : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration                                 : 1 h 30 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 8 000 kb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.965
Time code of first frame                 : 01:00:00:00
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
Stream size                              : 5.04 GiB (90%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
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