Forced Subtitles

[koberulz]

Forced subtitles don't ever seem to be marked as such on the output MKV file. I've seen this so far with both Breaking Bad and The Sopranos.

This means having to go through all the subs for each episode and figure out if they're supposed to be forced, then marking them as such. Which is a massive pain.

[Meister_Proper]

They do work if they are marked as auch. Sadly, this is not always the case. Therefore, check with this website before ripping:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... iew#gid=20

[Grauhaar]

This means having to go through all the subs for each episode and figure out if they're supposed to be forced, then marking them as such.

On most series, the subtitle order is the same for each episode. To find out if there is a forced subtitle track, you can use "Mediainfo" and check the ElementCount numbers on the subtitle tracks. If the nuber is low compared to the others, then this is a forced track. The exact number is not shown, but for Blu-ray PGS subtitles, divide the EmementCounter number by 2 to get it.

[koberulz]

They do work if they are marked as auch. Sadly, this is not always the case. Therefore, check with this website before ripping:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... iew#gid=20

This is untrue. I just re-ripped s02e12. I checked "English" and "English (forced)", which were the only two English subtitle options.

It ripped with two English tracks, neither of them marked as forced. One subtitled all the dialog, one only subtitled a heavy foreign accent. So it was correctly marked on the Blu-ray, and MakeMKV read it as a forced track, but it wasn't marked as forced on the MKV.

[Woodstock]

MakeMKV isn't going to mark any subtitles as "forced". It will look for them, and write them to a separate track if any are found, but it's not going to insert any tags.

The vast majority of content with dubbed audio and subtitles will have a separate track for what most people call "forced subtitles". It's much cleaner from the disc authors' perspective.

A track that contains such subtitles may be marked as "default", or the disc menu may select it automatically when you select the dubbed audio, but there little use of "forced" flags.

Out of well over 1,500 disks, Avatar is the only title I own that uses the flag.

[koberulz]

MakeMKV isn't going to mark any subtitles as "forced". It will look for them, and write them to a separate track if any are found, but it's not going to insert any tags.

But...why not? It should. Doing so would be correct.

The vast majority of content with dubbed audio and subtitles will have a separate track for what most people call "forced subtitles". It's much cleaner from the disc authors' perspective.

I don't follow. Cleaner than what? Are we talking past each other about what a forced subtitle is?

A track that contains such subtitles may be marked as "default", or the disc menu may select it automatically when you select the dubbed audio, but there little use of "forced" flags.

This is, again, untrue. Sopranos correctly marks their forced subtitles as such on the disc. I also don't think you're correctly understanding what a forced subtitle is, because marking it as the default absolutely does not achieve the same thing.

[Woodstock]

Only the author of the disc can tell which subtitles should be forced. MakeMKV cannot; so it won't add the forced tag if it isn't there.

It is cleaner for the disc author, because not all players recognize and utilize the "forced" flag.

As for recognizing what a forced subtitle is, you may have that opinion of me, but, of those over-1500 disks, 95% of them are in Japanese, so I work with subtitles A LOT. A given episode of a series may have up to 4 different English subtitle tracks, or as few as one.

The USUAL case for subtitling is:

One track with ALL subtitles.
Optional subtitle track with only "foreign audio" (aka "forced") subtitles, if there is a dubbed audio track.
Optional subtitle track for voice actor commentary.
Optional subtitle track for director commentary.

None will have the "forced" flag set on any subtitle. As I said, I've only seen one movie that used forced flags. The best I've seen is the foreign audio subtitle track flagged as "default".

The only workflow I've found success with is ripping ALL subtitle tracks, then watching enough of the video to determine which ones are which, and further processing the files to remove unwanted tracks, and to make the one I want most often the FIRST track found.

[koberulz]

Only the author of the disc can tell which subtitles should be forced. MakeMKV cannot; so it won't add the forced tag if it isn't there.

But it is there. When I look at The Sopranos in MakeMKV there are two English tracks, and one is marked as forced. On the resulting MKV there are two English tracks, and neither is marked as forced.

Optional subtitle track with only "foreign audio" (aka "forced") subtitles, if there is a dubbed audio track.

Why do you keep bringing up dubbed audio as though it's relevant to the issue?

The only workflow I've found success with is ripping ALL subtitle tracks, then watching enough of the video to determine which ones are which, and further processing the files to remove unwanted tracks, and to make the one I want most often the FIRST track found.

I'm confused. How does this approach solve the issue at all? Going through and marking the forced track as forced seems like a better solution. It's certainly the one that gets me the desired result in Emby.

[Grauhaar]

When I look at The Sopranos in MakeMKV there are two English tracks, and one is marked as forced.

Wrong, it is not marked as forced, it is only the option to separate individuall forced flagged subtitles. It is a new extra track created my MakeMKV to save "forced flagged" individuall subtitles from the subtitle track. Only in this case (the individuall subtitle has the forced flag set), MakeMKV can detect an forced subtitle. But most discs uses an normal subtitle track for storing forced subtitles (the complete track contains only forced subtitles!, selected by the blu-ray menu commands) and in this case, MakMKV has no knowlege if this is an forced or whatever subtitle track.

On the resulting MKV there are two English tracks, and neither is marked as forced

See above, the individuall forced flagged subitles are stored in the extra track.

[koberulz]

It's like talking to a brick wall.

"The track is marked as forced in MakeMKV, why isn't it marked as forced in the output?"
"If it's not marked as forced MakeMKV won't know it's forced."
"But it is marked as forced."
"Most discs don't mark tracks as forced, so MakeMKV won't know."
"Okay, but this one does, so MakeMKV does know."
"But most of the time it doesn't."


I don't care about most of the time, I care about this time.

[Woodstock]

Did the subtitle selection look like this picture?



The forced only selection in this case is manufactured by MakeMKV from any flagged-as-forced subtitles in the parent. Almost always that track will be empty, and deleted.

[koberulz]

Did the subtitle selection look like this picture?



The forced only selection in this case is manufactured by MakeMKV from any flagged-as-forced subtitles in the parent. Almost always that track will be empty, and deleted.

But in this case it isn't empty, it has the forced subs in it. Which aren't being flagged as such in the output MKV file.

[Meister_Proper]

It's like talking to a brick wall.

"The track is marked as forced in MakeMKV, why isn't it marked as forced in the output?"
"If it's not marked as forced MakeMKV won't know it's forced."
"But it is marked as forced."
"Most discs don't mark tracks as forced, so MakeMKV won't know."
"Okay, but this one does, so MakeMKV does know."
"But most of the time it doesn't."


I don't care about most of the time, I care about this time.

Talking about biting the hand that feeds you. You might want to try another attitude if people are trying to help.
Your inability to understand the issue/behavior is not our problem.

[koberulz]

Accidental double post.

[koberulz]

But I do understand the issue.

The forced subtitle track, on this disc, contains the forced subtitles. It is not empty. Every single explanation provided in this thread has been "but that track is empty, the forced subs are on a different track". But they aren't.