Old code

[aloha]

Hello:

I just noticed that MakeMKV still supports Windows XP (Readme.rtf). This made me curious as to why? Per Wikipedia, "As of February 2020, 1.25% of Windows PCs run Windows XP,[7] and a little under 1% of all traditional PCs run Windows XP." and "Extended support for Windows XP ended on April 8, 2014..." (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP).

Given the extremely low percentage of systems running XP, it's no longer being supported and it is at least 6 years old (well almost), it has made me curious. I was wondering if any "legacy code" needed to support Windows XP could be dumped (ultimately "mike admin" makes that determination - I well aware of that fact)? Granted, I have been out of the coding business for an extremely long time so my question may have no relevance. But, if XP support was dumped, would the code for MakeMKV become more efficient, smaller/tighter, faster, etc? I'm guessing at one point support for Windows prior to XP was supported (maybe not) but eventually those prior versions were phased out. Not trying to ruffle feathers, just curious as to when an OS version is declared no longer relevant and as such supporting code deprecated?

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[Woodstock]

Maybe because XP machines can still run it?

MakeMKV chooses 32- vs. 64-bit based on what the machine is capable of. It doesn't do anything that specifically requires 64-bit code, like, for example, handbrake does.

Is there some reason you think it should be dropped, just because Microsoft doesn't like it?

Note, I have a number of machines running XP in 32-bit mode, most running as virtual machines under Win64 and Linux, because Win64 dropped all support for 16-bit programs. These programs continue to perform tasks after 20+ years of operation, and do not have viable replacements.

[mike admin]

I just noticed that MakeMKV still supports Windows XP (Readme.rtf). This made me curious as to why?

Have you ever installed a Windows XP? If yes, you should recall that the first slide shown during installation reads "Windows XP is the best Windows ever". Sadly, this is still true... As Woodstock answered, there are plenty configurations where windows xp is still a best choice.
And what's important XP support in MakeMKV comes not at a price of limiting functionality to a lowest common denominator - MakeMKV GUI will use all Win10 touch/accessibility/etc features when running on latest OS version - it is just it also runs (reliably!) on old OS versions as well.

[aloha]

Hello:

Thank you both for taking time to respond to my post.

@mike admin:
Yes, I installed hundreds of XP. I was in the IT sector for a very long time. Now, not so much. I prefer to call it my passionate hobby. Regarding your response overall - I never thought of it from the perspective you provided. As such, it is refreshing to know that although XP might be used on approximately only 1% of the machines you want to support it as long as possible. Good answer.


@Woodstock:
Please see my above response to "mike admin" regarding XP installs. Never said I had anything against XP, only that I was curious as to why continued support. "mike admin" provided a perspective I had not considered, now it makes perfect sense.

Again, thank you both for your responses. I definitely have learned something; MakeMKV will continue to support an OS as long as possible, where others may just bail on an OS for it not being the most recent.

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[Woodstock]

I really think that "1%" figure is not quite that low. Companies that count do so by looking at what machines claim they're running when they make web accesses to tracked websites; none of my XP installs talk to internet, so they aren't going to be counted. I used to have the browser string on one my machines reporting it was a Sinclair ZX80, then a Cromemco running Cromix, and later a Radio Shack Color Computer.

In terms of absolutes, it may be 3-5% of running computers, when you add in the embedded systems. Machines that had more than 2GB of RAM, I updated to Win7-32bit. That could run the 16-bit programs I need to run... But Win10-32bit cannot. Hence, the use of XP virtual machines.

Strangely, Microsoft provides an image of XP for their VM software, for free. Not so strangely, it is significantly less stable that installing it yourself in a VM...

[mike admin]

@mike admin:
Yes, I installed hundreds of XP. I was in the IT sector for a very long time.

Apologies, that was a bad irony on my part.
But still, XP (SP1) is a great and very lightweight system that is used a lot in VM environment. Specifically, having option of running MakeMKV on XP simplifies a lot of build / testing scenarios.

[aloha]

Hello:

@mike admin:
Apology not necessary. After re-reading my sentence, it now occurs to me that it came off as rude & condescending. That was not my intent. In my head it was meant as an innocent comment. It is I who owe you the apology (let's call it water under a bridge).

XP was/is great! In fact it was so great many companies and individuals completely avoided Microsoft Vista to the point Microsoft basically had to beg for all concerned to upgrade to Windows 7. In fact, XP is still so great that XP received three special upgrades in May 2014, May 2017, and May 2019 to address vulnerabilities, well after it's sunset date. And that's way after it's initial sunset and extended sunset date. I don't believe Microsoft has ever done that for ANY other of it's OS offerings. More proof of XP's greatness!

The same could almost be said of Windows 7 as an XP replacement, as most companies and individuals skipped Windows 8.x, because they did not like the missing menu and the way the interface worked, in addition to the different applications that handled common features.

It is my belief that as a result of basically everyone not upgrading XP to the next Microsoft OS version (IE: Vista) and then it basically happened again to Windows 7 (IE not upgrading to 8.x), Microsoft changed it's dynamics in Windows 10 as a "rolling release" (for lack of a better term), and now essentially "forces" updates upon the Windows 10 users. The scary part... When does Microsoft pull the trigger and make Windows XX (IE: whatever) into a monthly subscription service? Microsoft is basically doing it now with Office 365 products. People are flocking towards it and Microsoft LOVES the recurring monthly revenues vs long dry spells of customers not spending money on an upgraded or a brand new OS.


@Woodstock:
I arrived at the 1% figure based on Wikipedia information (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP)
"As of February 2020, 1.25% of Windows PCs run Windows XP,[7] and a little under 1% of all traditional PCs run Windows XP."
"As of January 2020, in most regions, Windows XP market share on PCs, as a fraction of the total Windows share, has gone below 3%."

Where [7]:
"^ "Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide | StatCounter Global Stats". gs.statcounter.com. Statcounter. Retrieved February 10, 2020."

But, I do believe you are correct in that those figures do not take into account system not connected to the net or medical equipment (if memory serves correct... There is still a bunch of medical devices still running XP to this day due to it's light weightiness and stability factor). That alone would make a significant percent factor variance increase as almost ALL medical devices NEVER connect to the net and thus are not included in any totals.

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