Loss of subtitles

[BillAmes]

I have a DVD set and when I play it in VLC I see there are 2 subtitle tracks. They both are identified as English but the first one never shows the subtitles and I must select the second. That always works and I have this issue on many of my DVD sets.

When processing the latest DVD I observed that I got two mkv files, this is ok I believe. The problem is that the second file has only one subtitle track, not showing any subs. Media info confirms it. I did download the toolkit to see if there was anything it might do but it also had only one subtitle listed.

My problem is, how do I get the subtitles for this second file? I assume it must be some setting I need to make when I originally make the mkv file?

Here??? -sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang),-sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang

Help please.

Win 10, 64

V 1.14.7

[Woodstock]

You are probably seeing where disk authors do NOT use the "Forced Subtitle Flag" within the subtitle track, and instead provide two tracks, one with "all subtitles", the other with "signs and foreign language only" (also called "forced"). If you're watching with the dubbed audio track, this second track is the one you normally want displayed.

What makes all of this "fun" is that the disk authors also control which tracks are played through their menus... which aren't part of the MKV files. Playback software/hardware will usually take the first track of each type found and play it, so if the tracks are in the wrong order, you won't get the result you want.

A lot of disks have the original audio first, the dub audio second, so the subtitle tracks are full first, forced second. The player will select the dub audio, and the first subtitle track, ignoring any flags set in the MKV file.

Because the two tracks are both the same language, the selection rules do not help; MakeMKV sees them as equals, so they get transferred in the same order.

My personal solution is the grab ALL audio/subtitle tracks, and sort them out afterward. I then run the file through handbrake to make it smaller, AND set the proper order for the tracks in the resulting file. I can even set the "default" flag on tracks, but I have yet to see that work better than setting the correct order.

[Chetwood]

What I find helps is using players who adhere to the flags like Kodi. That way I can keep the original order but simply flag the second track as forced. Of course there's plenty of standalone which still don't read flags in 2020 which is annoying.

[Grauhaar]

I use Media Client Players from "Dune HD" and the software checks the "Forced" track Flag for the default language in the MKV header. An "Forced" track for any different language will be ignored. So setting the flags (Default and Forced) in the MKV header helps a lot. But most of the players selects always the first audio and subtitle track, regardless of the flag settings.

[BillAmes]

The subtitle is not in the mkv file. I sent a ZIP as is appropriate to let support sort it out. You can not play it if it is not there. It will be interesting to see what the wizards at headquarters have to say.

[Grauhaar]

When processing the latest DVD I observed that I got two mkv files, this is ok I believe.

Why two mkv files? A movie is in one mkv file and not in two.

The problem is that the second file has only one subtitle track, not showing any subs. Media info confirms it. I did download the toolkit to see if there was anything it might do but it also had only one subtitle listed.
My problem is, how do I get the subtitles for this second file? I assume it must be some setting I need to make when I originally make the mkv file?
Here??? -sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang),-sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang

Why do you think that two subtitle tracks should be in the mkv file? With you settings you select only the "FAVLANG" (f.e eng) and "NOLANG" tracks.

Have you expanded the title so see what tracks are selected? Any message that an empty subtitle track is removed?

Please note: MakeMKV does not extract "Forced flagged" subtitles into an seperate track as it does for Blu-rays.

[BillAmes]

When I play the source DVD in VLC I select the non-English audio and the second English subs as the first English subs selection seems to have no content. After running makemkv I get two files, the first large file has the same options in VLC as the source DVD and the second file has only one empty sub track. *If there is some option I must make in makemkv I am not aware of it. I did send the requested files to support and I am waiting on a reply.

[Grauhaar]

Once more, if you have two mkv files, two files are selected in MakeMKV. For he movie, you need only one. And check what is selected if you expand the titles.

[BillAmes]

Yes, it appears the extra file (1G compared to 6G) only has a single sub and that file seems to be the last two episodes on the DVD. The other file appears to have all the episodes. I learned to use the expert mode and expand the selection. So I used the checkboxes to just get the BIG file, and only the desired language. Now, there were two sub files listed. One seemed to be a default (as shown on the right when I selected it) but I picked the other. Now, why would makemkv have defaulted to an empty file? I noticed that when I played the converted file that subs were being displayed. So, perhaps it is so a sub file will always display when in a player that has no selection ability like VLC?

One more question. It is not a movie but seven episodes of an anime series. There are seven IG vobs on the DVD so my guess is that these are the episodes. I could prefer to have separate episode files, how to do this?

I learned a lot today. Thank you all for your help.

[Grauhaar]

One seemed to be a default (as shown on the right when I selected it) but I picked the other. Now, why would makemkv have defaulted to an empty file? I noticed that when I played the converted file that subs were being displayed.

With MakMKV 1.4.5 the default settings has be changed. There are a lot of posting about this in the forum. Serach for "setFirstSubtitleTrackAsDefault" This can be changed by setting defaults to "false" and specify your own profile in MakeMKV.

From now on the first subtitle track is set to default. No idea why, but this is wrong, because there is no default for an subtitle track. Subtitle tracks are always optional.

So, perhaps it is so a sub file will always display when in a player that has no selection ability like VLC?

No, the subtitle selection is controlled by the medtadata settings in the IFO file. A selection in the menu selects the audio and subtitle (if any).

It is not a movie but seven episodes of an anime series. There are seven IG vobs on the DVD so my guess is that these are the episodes. I could prefer to have separate episode files, how to do this?

You can use the "Open DVD in manual mode", navigate to the DVD IFO file and you see a selection menu. Click on the below link for help. You can specify f.e. "5:1-5" to get title 5, but only chapters 1-5. Check first with f.e. VLC which chapters are for one episode.
The other option is to use "MKVToolNIX GUI" with the split by chapter number option to spilt one file into smaller pices.

[BillAmes]

I tried the manual option and that got what you see below and it also directed me to the Manual DVD mode and I could see that the effort to master all of this to just get separate episode files was not worth it. If there were a wizard GUI that walked me through a selection from the below data and then generated the proper command line, well as we have all heard, 'next version!" I am satisfied with my results and this subject can be closed, is that an option?



Disc Information
Label : Soul_Eater_P1_D1
Titles count : 60


Title information
1: 1/1 - 2 chapter(s) 0:00:15 2 cell(s)
2: 1/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
3: 2/1 - 2 chapter(s) 0:00:24 2 cell(s)
4: 3/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:02:07 1 cell(s)
5: 4/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
6: 5/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
7: 5/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
8: 6/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:02:45 1 cell(s)
9: 6/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
10: 6/3 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
11: 7/1 - 44 chapter(s) 2:45:18 44 cell(s)
12: 7/2 - 7 chapter(s) 0:23:36 7 cell(s)
13: 7/3 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
14: 7/4 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
15: 7/5 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
16: 7/6 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
17: 7/7 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
18: 7/8 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
19: 7/9 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
20: 7/10 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
21: 8/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
22: 8/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
23: 8/3 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
24: 8/4 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
25: 8/5 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
26: 8/6 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
27: 8/7 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
28: 8/8 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
29: 8/9 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
30: 8/10 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
31: 9/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
32: 9/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
33: 9/3 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
34: 9/4 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
35: 9/5 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
36: 9/6 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
37: 9/7 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
38: 9/8 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
39: 9/9 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
40: 9/10 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
41: 10/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
42: 10/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
43: 10/3 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
44: 10/4 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
45: 10/5 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
46: 10/6 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
47: 10/7 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
48: 10/8 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
49: 10/9 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
50: 10/10 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
51: 11/1 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
52: 11/2 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
53: 11/3 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
54: 11/4 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
55: 11/5 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
56: 11/6 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
57: 11/7 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
58: 11/8 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
59: 11/9 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)
60: 11/10 - 1 chapter(s) 0:00:00 1 cell(s)

[Grauhaar]

Wow, never seen this layout before. DVDs can be simple or complex. Most of the titles have 0:00:00 runtime, so ignore them. This DVD has one large file which holds all epiosdes.

The only relevant title is "11: 7/1 - 44 chapter(s) 2:45:18 44 cell(s)". What did you see in VLC? What did you see in MakeMKV if you only type "11" (for title 11) in the command line and after MakMKV shows the title selection in the right window under "Segment Map"? Maybe the segment map shows a kind of episode grouping like "1-5,6-10,11-15 ...." which can be used for the manual command selection.

Try in MakeMKV "11:1-6" or "11:1-7" (for chapters), don't know how many chapters are used for one epiosde. Maybe you can use instead of chapters the segment map cells with f.e "11:@1-@5"

[Woodstock]

For what it is worth, I have that DVD set somewhere. There are two English subtitle tracks. I ripped it back in 2013, before "Manual Mode" was available, and had no difficulty with it. Funimation rarely re-masters disks when they release "essentials" or "classics" sets.

[BillAmes]

For what it is worth, I have that DVD set somewhere. There are two English subtitle tracks. I ripped it back in 2013, before "Manual Mode" was available, and had no difficulty with it. Funimation rarely re-masters disks when they release "essentials" or "classics" sets.

I was watching this on Netflix and when I got to ep 10 I knew I had found a favorite so I purchased the DVDs on ebay. The only reason I rip is it is a lot easier to watch. Using VLC I can do 20 minutes, stop, feed the cat, do some photography, watch a different anime or MLB or Code Lyoko and when I return to this show VLC resumes where I left off.

One of the English sub tracks is empty, that is the default in makemkv. When I copy I uncheck the dub audio and pick the second sub and uncheck the other un needed video. Make my copy and the audio is Japanese and the subs in English and these are selected in VLC.

Having to manage lots of DVDs is a pain, I can have on one ext SSD USB drive 30 or more DVDs. I am finding as I learn more I find my criteria for quality in the shows I watch is evolving.
I suggest the following:

(1) Hakumei to Mikochi (a real example of a slice of life)

(2) Haibane Renmei (challenging to watch, but please do)

(3) Made in Abyss (very difficult to watch and you will look for more about it after you finish to find out...)

(4) NieA Under Seven (we have all seen this, haven't we?)

(5) Risky Safety (now this is different)

I was looking for the place to get the blu ray upgrade but it seems it is not posted.

[Woodstock]

I gave up on "managing" physical disks a LONG time ago - when it arrives, it goes into the computer to be ripped, then the disks go into storage boxes. Handbrake is a necessity to keep the storage reasonable... after the first dozen terabytes, normal external drives are a pain, so I moved to Network Attached Storage (NAS). My target has been to have everything available for both TV and "devices" (tablets, phones), anywhere in the house.

If you are on any kind of budgetary restrictions, do NOT go to rightstufanime.com because it will likely turn into an economic disaster for you.

The middle 3 in your list I have. I've only watched parts of 3 & 4, but agree with you about Haibana. I have a number of favorites, such as Clannad, Kanon, Beyond the Boundary, ... but this isn't about those.

Back to subtitles - On BDs, MakeMKV will offer to search subtitle tracks for ones that have the "forced" flag, and will create separate tracks for those... then delete them automatically if they're empty. On DVDs, it doesn't. If the track exists on the disk, though, MakeMKV won't delete it, even if it is empty.