Question about ripping DolbyVision and playing it

[Daskew78]

I know Dolby Vision isn't supported but what I wanted to know is what actually happens when you rip a Blu-Ray with MakeMKV that has Dolby Vision?

Is there generally more than 1 video on the disk, 1 with Dolby Vision and 1 without? Is it converted? If so what it is converted to?

Also I'm very interested in knowing what happens if you play Dolby Vision content on a HDR10+ TV and vice-versa, HDR10+ content on a Dolby Vision TV?

Thanks for any incite!

[Woodstock]

Did you read the dozens-of-pages long Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux. thread on this very subject yet?

[SamuriHL]

I have my doubts.

https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20239

[Daskew78]

I think you might miss-understand, I wasn’t asking how to rip Dolby Vision, I can do this!

I want to know what it actually does to the Dolby Vision if I rip it as a standard MKV file? Is it converted to HDR10 or HDR10+?

It may seem like a pointless question but I am just interested.

Also on a separate issue I was interested what it does with the video if you play HDR10+ on a Dolby Vision TV and vice-versa?

If you understand my question and that information is in that topic please advise and I go read through 500+ posts on there, but I had a quick look and couldn’t see anything apart from questions about ripping it into an mp4 which As said is not what i’m asking.

Thanks.

[SamuriHL]

I'll quickly answer these questions, but, as I've previously said, there's a LOT of information to digest on this topic which is why I said to search. This has all been discussed in great detail.

First, you need to understand how Dolby Vision, HDR10, and HDR10+ metadata are stored on the UHD. HDR10 and HDR10+ are embedded in the video track stream as part of the video track. As such, when you repackage them to an MKV they will be retained. Dolby Vision is a separate, 1080p video track that contains the Dolby Vision metadata. You can select this extra track and slam it into the MKV. And it'll do you absolutely 0 good to do so. And this is where the quick answer stops because to understand the why you need to do a lot of reading.

Your other question makes not a lot of sense. I'm not sure what you're expecting for an answer, but, here's the breakdown:

HDR10 is supported by all TV's that support HDR...it's the base level of HDR

HDR10+ is ONLY supported by TV's that support HDR10+.
Dolby Vision is ONLY supported by TV's that support Dolby Vision

If you try to play an unsupported format on a TV, it will default to HDR10.

[Daskew78]

Thank you... that’s extremely helpful!

The reason I wanted to know is I’m currently backing my UHD collection of 170+ films. I want to ensure each one is backed up with the best quality and features as possible.

So if I backup a Dolby Vision film I want to be sure it will play on my HDR10+ TV but still want the Dolby Vision meta data in case I stream it to a Dolby Vision capable TV.

Now I know it will play Dolby Vision on a Dolby Vision TV or default to HDR10 on a TV that doesn’t support Dolby Vision.

Also Vice-versa backing up any HDR10+ UHDs will default to playing HDR10 on a Dolby Vision TVs in the future.

So if I make sure my next TV down the line supports both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision my backups will be a great asset!

Thanks again!

[Daskew78]

Just though I’d add that I’m going to be using MakeMKV to backup all UHDs expect for the Dolby Vision ones where I will use DVDFab’s Ripper which supports it.

Now I need to find out how to identify which is HDR10+ and which are Dolby Vision... the back of the case doesn’t always say... any idea’s?

[SamuriHL]

I'm not sure what you're outputting from DVDFab, but, Dolby Vision is a pain in the ass on backups. It's not backing it up that's the issue. It's playing the backup. Because Dolby Vision is proprietary there's literally no support outside officially licensed players. There's a reason there's a 500 page thread on this very topic. DVDFab is mentioned there, as well. As is CloneBD which can also backup Dolby Vision in a variety of formats. And then there's the MP4 muxing tool that the thread is centered around.

There are VERY few TV's that support HDR10+ AND Dolby Vision. Almost all of them fall into one camp or the other. Panasonic is the only one I know of. And those jerks stopped selling in my market. (I'm bitter on this topic as I LOVE my Panny plasma 1080p TV but was forced to go LG when I upgraded to UHD)

As for identifying the discs, no idea. I use CloneBD for that. I can't remember if MakeMKV can identify the video metadata or not. mediainfo I believe can. DVDFab also can.

[Daskew78]

Well it outputs it in an MP4 but as you say it’s playing it back that’s the issue. Are you saying that even if I’ve backed it up and it plays it still might not actually Dolby Vision?

I would have thought that if the TV supports it the license has been paid and it should work if you have everything compatible (TV, Media and UHD player if applicable)? After all, that’s why Samsung created HDR10+ because they didn’t want to pay for Dolby Vision.

If not I think it’s time I grabbed a brew and my thinking cap and go through that thread and hope I understand it.

I know there’s few TVs that support both right now and my QE75Q9FN is still very young but hopefully by the time I’m looking to purchase my next TV, either a standard has been set in stone or both are being supported... we can only hope!

I’ll check out if CloneD and MediaInfo can identify if it is HDR, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision from the disk before I rip it which would be great, if not I may have to search each one.

[SamuriHL]

Well, MP4 as a container doesn't support HD audio formats such as TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, Atmos, and DTS:X so there's another problem. Go look at your MP4 output from DVDFab and you'll see you have AC3 or DTS. In the thread you've not read through yet they've been working on hacking HD audio formats into the MP4 container, but, that still doesn't help you. You really do need to start reading because I'm not going to reiterate everything that's been said in this thread about all the issues involved with Dolby Vision. You need to research because the answers are out there and it's a very complicated topic.

You would have thought that, and you would have been wrong. As I've been saying. It's nowhere near that simple.

Yes, you need to go read...it's the only way you're going to understand the myriad of problems that Dolby Vision presents.

I take it you're new to "standards wars".....cause that's not how these things typically work out. The fact that we're starting to get discs with both Dolby Vision and HDR10+ is nothing short of a miracle. This all revolves around money so it's not likely to be solved any time soon.

No tool is going to do so on a protected disc so that's of no help.

[Daskew78]

I understand, I’ll have a good read read through it. Thanks very much for all your help!

[SamuriHL]

There's a TON of info in that thread. The majority of it you can mostly ignore as it pertains to how to get the content in an MP4 container but there are posts in there that discuss the inherent problems with Dolby Vision in MKV and why it doesn't work. The summary version of that is that there's no decoder, splitter, and renderer that can support it nor is there support in the MKV standard for how to store it in the MKV container. There COULD be, but, there's no standard for it nor will Dolby ever likely create one. Dolby Vision is a closed, proprietary standard which means there's no information about what's in the metadata track. They had released a tool to multiplex them into the MP4 container, which is what started the big revolution in MP4 backups. If you want to keep HD audio, this problematic. Even if you do manage to get the HD audio hacked into the MP4, the reality is there's a lack of players to play it. Those of us with LG TV's have the built in player that supports MP4. But unless you have a new one that has HDMI 2.1 and eARC, you can't get the ATMOS or DTS:X audio back to the receiver. When I said this was complicated, I wasn't kidding. This scratches the surface of the problems you'll face.

[Daskew78]

If I have to chose it will be the Audio over the Dolby Vision, but as you say... if there is a way that's not too complicated to get the audio file into the MP4 that would also be amazing!

I have a 5.1.2 Atmos setup and have tackled the eARC issue already by using a "HDFury Maestro" with both the TX and RX (I also have the Diva for the ambilights on the TV which is cool). It supports all known Video and Audio formats and so I send all sources into that, it then splits the audio to go to the A?V receiver so I get Atmos, DTS:X etc... and the video (whatever it may be) is sent direct to the TV. So I don't need to wait for eARC now, it's not an issue. It's also fully firmware upgradeable and the support is really good. I can even send any of those sources direct upstairs to the RX receiver @ full 18Gbps 4K using CAT7 to watch Sky/UHDs/etc... in the bedroom and split the audio and video again in the bedroom again so I still get Atmos, DTS:X etc... up there also. The HDFury stuff is really good and the support is excellent.

So my only issue is with how I'm going to chose to backup the Dolby Vision discs.... I'll have a read but suspect I may not bother with DVDFab and just use MakeMKV for everything as I don't want to lose the audio. I know I could still use DVDFab but I haven't bought the license yet (I was about to this evening).

[Daskew78]

p.s. I checked out the mp4 and the audio was as you said in AAC and the Dolby Vision in another 1080P video within it.

Rip info

rips.jpg (100.46 KiB) Viewed 28152 times

[SamuriHL]

If you believe how you back them up is your "only issue" then you don't understand what I'm telling you. Let me try a different tactic here to see if I can get the point across. Let's say you have an MP4 with Dolby Vision and ATMOS audio that you were able to create...theoretically. You have the HD Fury, that's great. What are you going to connect to it that plays Dolby Vision from an MP4?