DTS-HD MA - Why are MA and Core both selectable ?

[Coldblackice]

Same here. I thought it was required because it was nested.

I fully agree with SiliconKid.

This thread just got LAZARUS'd

That being said, I fully agree with SiliconKid -- given that DTS-HD automatically includes core, the MakeMKV layout/option is confusing. I've had to do multiple test configurations and extractions to figure out what it meant with the nested boxes, whether when one box is checked, the other checked, and/or both checked.

Sure, not a huge deal, but in my opinion, it would be helpful if the boxes weren't nested -- instead, have them side-by-side on the same level, and if DTS-HD gets clicked, it automatically checks the DTS core box and also grays it out. This visually implies that the core is automatically included.

I can't imagine any case where someone would need a DTS-HD track and a separate DTS-core track, as it would be redundant for anything that can already read plain DTS. But just my two cents, and nothing I'll get upset about.

[MZAdotcom]

Good lord, this is what I've been looking for!

Have been wanting to post something about this subject for a while now and am so glad I took the time to search for this.

First of all: 100% agree with SiliconKid.

Thank you, SiliconKid, for explaining things so clearly .

@joe42 [and the rest]: I don't understand your attitude on this. SiliconKid was making a very valid point and I'm positive there are other people who feel the same. He's not being "presumptuous", or anything else. He clearly explained all the facts regarding the DTS-MA HD standard and it's backward compatibility feature, several times, I might add, yet it was not good enough for you. You don't want to come to an understanding or find a solution, you just want to argue, apparently.

As with most users, my main concerns when backing up a blu-ray disc are 1] quality and 2] space/size. I don't want to compromise on the first part and want THE best possible version of a movie. If a disc has both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA HD, I'll keep both, since my AVR [Harman/Kardon AVR 1565] can handle both. The second part of space/size, I'm more open about, but still want to minimize the size as much as possible. Now, having said that, why would anyone [read: vast majority] want both the DTS-MA HD and DTS?!? That's all SiliconKid is saying.

I totally agree that the MakeMKV GUI should NOT show those 2 tracks as nested. I'm glad I found out the difference between the 2 audio tracks in question and this thread sooner rather than later because I'm at the relative start of my blu-ray collection backup scheme.

That's my two cents on all this. Love MakeMKV; paid my license fee years ago and it has been worth every penny. Hands down the best product for backing up your blu-ray collection. I always recommend it to others.

Cheers.

[GollyJer]

I know this is an old thread, but would like to thank everyone for digging into this issue.

My main concern is the same as MZAdotcom...

As with most users, my main concerns when backing up a blu-ray disc are 1] quality and 2] space/size. I don't want to compromise on the first part and want THE best possible version of a movie. If a disc has both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA HD, I'll keep both, since my AVR [Harman/Kardon AVR 1565] can handle both. The second part of space/size, I'm more open about, but still want to minimize the size as much as possible. Now, having said that, why would anyone [read: vast majority] want both the DTS-MA HD and DTS-MA?!? That's all SiliconKid is saying.

When I back up a disk I want to make it as high quality and compatible as possible. Size isn't the first consideration but who wants to waist space.

Using the information in this thread I've come up with an Advanced Settings string that generally selects all the correct items. And if it doesn't, it takes far less clicking to fix than the default string.

Code: Select all

-sel:all,+sel:(subtitle&(favlang)),+sel:(lossless&(favlang)),+sel:(havelossless&(!core)&(favlang)),=1:lossless,=2:lossy

Hopefully this helps others.

[CountryBumkin]

You only need to check the DTS-HD stream; it will automatically take the DTS core and DTS-HD extension to give you the full DTS-HD experience you're after.

I have tested this; my PopcornHour C-200 plays it as DTS-HD while my WDTV Live extracts and plays the DTS core since it doesn't support DTS-HD.

If you check both boxes, the first audio track will be the full DTS-HD core+extension and the second track will be just the DTS core. As long as all of your devices can playback the full DTS-HD track or at least extract the DTS core from that same track, then there is no reason to select the box for the DTS core.

So if you want to make a rip that is compatible with all players (i.e. the ones that can't play DTS-HD) you should check both boxes.
Other than wasted space - it doesn't sound like there is any downside to checking both boxes.

[GollyJer]

You only need to check the DTS-HD stream; it will automatically take the DTS core and DTS-HD extension to give you the full DTS-HD experience you're after.

I have tested this; my PopcornHour C-200 plays it as DTS-HD while my WDTV Live extracts and plays the DTS core since it doesn't support DTS-HD.

If you check both boxes, the first audio track will be the full DTS-HD core+extension and the second track will be just the DTS core. As long as all of your devices can playback the full DTS-HD track or at least extract the DTS core from that same track, then there is no reason to select the box for the DTS core.

So if you want to make a rip that is compatible with all players (i.e. the ones that can't play DTS-HD) you should check both boxes.
Other than wasted space - it doesn't sound like there is any downside to checking both boxes.

This is so confusing... but if you read what you quoted you'll see there is no need to select the child branch of the DTS-HD stream. "You only need to check the DTS-HD stream". The core (non-hd) stream is included if the lossloss format is DTS-HD. This is not the case for PCM or DolbyTrueHD.

The basic rule I follow; and what the settings string I posted above does is...
If DTS-HD, only select the DTS-HD stream and leave all other audio checkboxes empty including the child/branch checkbox. Full stop.
If PCM or DolbyTrueHD, include a 2nd lossy, matrix, non-HD (however you want to reference it) audio stream. This can be the child checkbox if it is the only lossy stream available.

[Knocks]

Hello from 2019

The issue is still very relevant. A lot of posters in this thread are assuming that everyone rips Blu-Rays for single-scenario playback only and that the ripper is not willing to sacrifice a little hard drive space for more flexibility in the future. That is not always the case.

Imagine a scenario where you want to back up a Blu-Ray so that you can selectively produce a DTS-HD MA-only file or a DTS Core-only file in the future, as needed. For example, you might be putting the larger file on your server or HTPC and the smaller file on your portable device. So you are spending a little more hard drive space now in order to save space in the future.

Yes, we know that the DTS-HD MA track contains the Core track. But once you rip out the Core track at the time of ripping, you can no longer produce Core-only files in the future. That's why both need to be selectable and rippable, together or separately.

[Grauhaar]

But once you rip out the Core track at the time of ripping, you can no longer produce Core-only files in the future.

The DTS Core is the base for DTS MA extention, so the Core part is always available and can be extracted later from an DTS MA track with different tools.

[glamdring]

Hey I hate to revive an old thread, but after recently dealing with / noticing this same thing I was wondering if it might make sense to add this setting to the default selection string in MakeMKV?

Code: Select all

-sel(core)

The idea is by default it will exclude the core, but the user can still check it if they want to or they can remove it from their own default selection string. While a UI adjustment would be best to communicate the issue, this is an easy change that should help tell users it's typically okay to exclude the core unless you want / need it.

I'm not super well versed in the advanced settings for MakeMKV, so I'm not sure if this could apply to any none DTS-HD MA tracks, but I haven't come across any issues yet using this setting. I don't have any 4k discs on hand, I packed them away after ripping so I didn't get to test if this setting works right on TrueHD yet. Anyway I hope we could do something like this as a default and if not I wanted to comment here with that simple setting, since this is still the top returned result when googling about DTS & DTS-HD MA selection.

This simple change is saving me a little over 400MB on average per an episode of Blue-ray TV shows.

(If reviving this old post is annoying / upsetting I'm really sorry, I normally avoid that on forums but made an account just to comment on this since it has been bugging me / confusing me for a while. )

[preserve]

Yeah, I also use the -sel:(core) selection rule. I can see the argument for having it included as a default for new users when they first install MakeMKV.

(On a side note, as someone who has done UI stuff and thus always notes it, the child/nested layout still makes the most sense to me, after I first saw the nested track in MakeMKV, wondered what it was, and then quickly learned the basics about how audio has core tracks. A small nicety might be to include a brief tooltip in MakeMKV, perhaps via a question mark icon, just to give new users a starting place to learn more.)