Forced Subs... Again

[phileeny]

I've been ripping my media for a long time in probably every format at one time or another and I've always has issues with forced subs, I was told at one time that Kodi only worked with Forced subs if its ripped in folder structure, not true, I know kodi and other programs can be a bit hit and miss, forced subs work in MPC-HC but not in Kodi or powerDVD doesn't play but another does.
What I don't understand with forced subs I put a disc in my player DVD, Blu-ray, 4k whatever it knows i'm English and at the right time in the film whatever subtitle track the forced subs are on they show up fine every time with no prompting from me.
There must be a flag or tag in the Blu-ray disc etc to say default is English you must show these forced subs, in Kodi for example I have to tell it The Martian 4K forced subs are track 3, some of the star wars are track 6, when I rip a disc I don't know what track is the right one (I rip all tracks anyway) I know MKV Flags: Default on some tracks so I assume this is the right track for my language when there are a few subtitles PGS English tracks.
So why don't the players like Kodi pick up the flag or tags like hardware players do.

[Woodstock]

Players are free to use/ignore any flag. I've found that the "most reliable" is to make your preferred subtitle track the FIRST one in the file, and maybe even use the default flag on it. Although that second part doesn't seem to work very often.

DVDs and BDs have menus that tell them which tracks to use for different playing conditions. MKV files do not; They just have flags. And sometimes the flags don't work out just right, and the player software will make choices differently than you'd expect.

Kodi is... well, Kodi. I have had two Android devices with Kodi installed, and I cannot see why people praise it so much. Unless, of course, you compare it to the other programs that suck even worse. The main issue I had how to get it to connect to network-based video sources, other than YouTube. Close behind that was support of subtitles.

Kodi worked for SOME subtitles, and didn't see others. If I remember correctly, it would display DVD VOBSUB subtitles just fine, would mostly work with SRT, and sometimes worked with Substation Alpha subtitles, if you muxed them in correctly, and included all fonts used. Bluray PGS subtitles? I had to use the Android Media Player if I wanted to see those. It, of course, had problems with VOBSUB. And my latest Android-based player uses a different media player, with its own problems.

Maybe Kodi would work with my network media server if I have the right pirate torrent plug-in?

Best hardware player interface and software I've seen so far came with the KDLinks non-Android players. Too bad they fail to boot after the warranty expires, and they've stopped selling anything except the Android version... Which is more expensive, and also seems to have a 13 month hardware expiration built in.

[phileeny]

My server is the server connected to the network and my kodi box isn't Android it's a purpose built computer running pure libreelec and nothing else which is basically kodi and I've not had any issues connecting to play my media at all,when you say blu rays and DVDs have menus to select the various subtitles this is true when you want subtitles but I'm not talking about subtitles as such I'm talking about forced subs when people talk foreign language in English films and these you do not select there provided automatically.
I agree kodi isn't always as good as people say but as far as I'm aware it's the only piece of software that does the job, I've tried the Android boxes that basically have apps and Kodi, and boxes like the Nvidia shield TV which I still use occasionally but I'm not interested in all the bloatware and plugins like YouTube and the plug-ins that let you watch programmes and films illegally, I just want pure media player and that's what I have with the libreelec at the moment, I nearly got the dvdfab media server until I found out it was just basically an Android box.

[Chetwood]

Kodi's subtitle settings are set in the OSD. If set to off, it should still display PGS subs flagged as forced. I know it did on my system but I can't remember if it was on Android, LibreElec, Raspi. Gonna have to check and report back...

[phileeny]

Yes it's the same language is set to English and subtitles is set to off, some films show the forced subtitles and some don't, it's so frustrating.

[phileeny]

Just been ripping a Blu-ray and there were only a few subtitle tracks and the English subs and forced were ticked and the forced was set to default, under properties and mkv flags the track is set to "d" default, I didn't know I could change that so I added "f" now it says the sub track is default and forced.
I wonder how that would affect how the forced subs work in playback?

[Chetwood]

Well... have you tried it? If not, here's some subs with various flags as well as forced items:

mega.**/fm/nGBzUIgI/fs+.rar

Copy the line to your browser's address bar and add the protocol in front of it and replace the asterisks with the top level domain, then press enter. PW is the name of the tool we're all using.

[phileeny]

Thanks but I don't need a link I can rip the subs myself I need a way to identify the right subs tracks for none English like alien or foreign language in films.
Star wars episode 1 the The Phantom Menace for example in makemkv defaults to English subs track one forced when the right subs track is six, how do I get makemkv to select and default to the right subs

[Chetwood]

I need a way to identify the right subs tracks for none English like alien or foreign language in films.

Actually, what you need to do is to read what's been said on this subject already. For the umpteenth time: there is NO WAY to identify the subs automatically, it has to be done manually. You can do this with as much effort as you please: extract them first and browse them with BDSUP2SUB or whatever technique has been suggested in the many threads on this topic.

Personally I rip all German subs, play back the MKV and then flag the sub I've identified to be the forced sub as default + forced. It's quite easy to spot since with this track selected most of the time there is no sub displayed when people are talking. So I don't need to actually search the scene where foreign language is spoken. YMMV.

Kodi worked for SOME subtitles, and didn't see others. If I remember correctly, it would display DVD VOBSUB subtitles just fine, would mostly work with SRT, and sometimes worked with Substation Alpha subtitles, if you muxed them in correctly, and included all fonts used. Bluray PGS subtitles? I had to use the Android Media Player if I wanted to see those. It, of course, had problems with VOBSUB. And my latest Android-based player uses a different media player, with its own problems.

Can you try my PGS subs on your system? I've tested them like this so far:

forced subs.png (16.85 KiB) Viewed 20286 times

Gonna see if Vobsubs make a difference.

[phileeny]

Sorry can't do a test at the moment, what makes me laugh most when taking Star wars phantom menace for example we know the collect subtitles are on track 6 and no matter which program you use to rip the Blu-ray players are always hit and miss with the subtitles for example kodi does not play them without selecting them first dvdfab player 5 plays them perfectly fine PowerDVD plays them perfectly fine what are these programs doing that kodi isn't, besides at the moment I'm ripping most of my blu rays and 4K in to ISO, with the hope a piece of software comes out that can be run in a stand-alone environment like libreelecand plays ripped discs as they are intended, at the moment I'm working on building my new media player anyway as I'm not happy with the Nvidia shield TV even though it works quite well.

[Woodstock]

Can you try my PGS subs on your system? I've tested them like this so far:

Right now, I can't test anything with Kodi. The one system I had it working at all on died, the one I replaced it with can't seem to figure out how to read from a SMB network, and the new NVidea Shield I bought yesterday... Well, let's just say I haven't found the mix of magic incantations to get it to play local video yet.

[phileeny]

If you got kodi on the Nvidia shield and SMB doesn't work try NFS, I've just been looking at the egreat A11, very expensive if I can get the software to run on my new build I'd be laughing.

[Chetwood]

kodi does not play them without selecting them first

As you can see from my table above, Kodi DOES play them without selecting them first if you play back from MKV. Ripping an entire disc including menu is something entirely different and I actually never saw the point of doing it.

the one I replaced it with can't seem to figure out how to read from a SMB network, and the new NVidea Shield I bought yesterday... Well, let's just say I haven't found the mix of magic incantations to get it to play local video yet.

That's weird cause in a fresh install of Kodi 'Video' will automatically add any drive you plug in bypassing the media library. About SMB: I don't know where you change this in Shield but under Libreelec under settings > services > smb client you can set Minimum/maximum protocol version to v1 and check 'use legacy security' (or upgrade your NAS).

I've added Vobsubs to the rar file but haven't tested them yet.

[Woodstock]

SMB setting has nothing about version, but the NAS does v2, so it's only a problem if Kodi is limited to v1.

Preference would be to mount the NAS in android and then kodi wouldn't have to screw around with any of that.

[phileeny]

It's been a wile.
I ripped Men in Black 4K to ISO, added it to my server and played it back via cat 6 to my Zidoo Z9S and it played back with menu almost intact, but when talking none English in the film the forced subs did not play when some other films do.
Then just to see what would happen I played the original disc on my Panasonic 4K player and guess what the menus and forced subs worked just fine.

Maybe I should abandon and delete all the rips on my server and dig out all my VHS tapes, DVD's, Blu-rays and 4K Blu-ray's and just watch them the old fashioned way.