Mkv to Mkv and forced pgs subtitle

[forceg]

Blu-rays, use a subtitle format called PGS or Presentation Graphic Stream. PGS is graphical as well but not many media streamers support forced subtitles within it. Often, your only options when playing back MKV files with PGS subtitles are to show all of the subtitles or none at all.
In MakeMKV, open ISO bluray file give you the choice to create mkv with separate forced subtitles
(explain here : https://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/10)

But if you open an MKV file, this choice is not available.
It is important because many mkv have one subtitle by language and the only possibility is to show all complete subtitles or none at all.

[Woodstock]

Is this a question or a "general information" message?

Subtitle streams with "tagged as forced" subtitles are rare, be they on DVD, Bluray, or streams.

[forceg]

it is a new feature I would like to find in makemkv
I think you didn't read correctly my post, and forced subtitle are not rare, because in bluray they are inclosed with normal pgs subtitle, that is the problème.
Keep in mind that people see movies not in english, need forced subtitle in many case.

[Grauhaar]

Yeah, every new feature is nice, but please remember, MakeMKV is tool to create one or more MKV files from DVD or Blu-ray structures. So this it is a nice to have feature to do the same thing with native MKV files.

If you want to extract "Forced flagged" VOB or PGS subtitles, this can be done with MKVToolNIX and BDsup2sub. Use the MKVToolNIx Extract program to get the track in a file, use the Java program BDsup2sub to extract all "Forced flagged" subtitles (one click) from the stream (you can also manipulate many other things with the tool) and Remuxx the new "Forced only" file with the existing MKV file.

[forceg]

Yes I can ! but it is long to do and not very simple for many people.
And also, this feature already exist : bluray iso to mkv
maybe an adaptation will be possible to do the same thing ; mkv to mkv

[Grauhaar]

And also, this feature already exist : bluray iso to mkv

ISO processing is the same as reading a DVD or Blu-ray. The structures and files are copied 1:1 (decrypted) from DVD or Blu-ray to the ISO file which is only another container like ZIP. So the later processing of the ISO data to create a MKV file is the same. But re-processing of an MKV file is different. I assume that MakeMKV only copy the selected tracks to an new MKV file without looking into the files. The same is done with MakeToolNIX remuxx, select/reorder of tracks and copy.

[Chetwood]

I think you didn't read correctly my post, and forced subtitle are not rare, because in bluray they are inclosed with normal pgs subtitle, that is the problème.

Actually, they are not, as Woodstock has explained countless times before on this forum. Since pretty much no BD is authored with items flagged as forced, forced subs are done with a separate stream of items that are not flagged as forced and as such not recognizable by MakeMKV. If they were, MakeMKV would recognize them and with the setting

setFirstForcedSubtitleTrackAsDefault="true"

under advanced settings would make them play by default. As it is now you have to rip all subs and flag the forced sub yourself with MKVToolnix's header editor or - to be on the safe side with cheap standalones - remux the mkv with MKVToolnix to make the forced sub stream the first in the file.

Granted, it would be nice if MakeMKV would recognize unflagged forced subs by their size and automatically mux them as the first sub...

[Grauhaar]

Since pretty much no BD is authored with items flagged as forced, forced subs are done with a separate stream of items that are not flagged as forced and as such not recognizable by MakeMKV.

This may be true for US disc, but in many other countries Forced flagged and Normal subs are mixxed in one track or have both mixxed and forced only tracks. I've have alot of this kind of dics and MakeMKV extract the forced flagged subs into an extra "forced only" track. So I selected always forced and normal subs in the MakeMKV selection and check it later with VLC and start a MKVToolNix remuxx with the correct subs plus flag settings and audio track order.

I think "forceg" have some MKV files, created by itself or by others, which have not the forced subs seperated and he searches for an easy solution to fix this.

[forceg]

EXACTLY Grauhaar, that's it !

[d00zah]

Although it's not a perfect solution, a tool called Subtitle Edit allows the user to extract 'forced only' subtitles from a 'merged' source.

Problem is, because the 'source' is PGS (graphical), OCR must be run 1st. OCR involves a time, a 'learning curve'' & a certain margin of error. This MAY improve with use.

Alternately, subtitle download sites like OpenSubtitlesdotorg MAY offer a .srt, forced only file requiring minimal effort.

[Grauhaar]

See my Post #4. The tool BDsup2sub can do this without OCR, because this is crap. I the eary years of Blu-ray processing I did this with OCR to Text and a lot of corrections. Never again!

[d00zah]

Just another option.

[Chetwood]

This may be true for US disc, but in many other countries Forced flagged and Normal subs are mixxed in one track or have both mixxed and forced only tracks.

German discs maybe? Can you name some examples?

I think "forceg" have some MKV files, created by itself or by others, which have not the forced subs seperated and he searches for an easy solution to fix this.

Since BDSUP2SUB exists, I doubt Mike will invest time implementing this feature in MakeMKV. Like I said, identifying forced subs in separate tracks is a more urgent matter, IMO.