Question on DVD obfuscation

[johng]

So I haven't been ripping many DVDs lately, but last night I was trying to rip the new release "You Were Never Really Here" and found that there were over 30 VTS_xx folders listed with the same length pgc / ifo titles in there. I tried saving the first instance of it and then dvd decrypter started doing a bunch of retries. Anyways I found one that it could decrypt and then compared playing that to playing the actual disc in VLC and noticed some minor discrepancies. I guess DVD obfuscation is a thing now or since I normally rip Bluray's maybe this isn't that new???

Anyways how does the obfuscation work on the DVD? On bluray they can scramble all the sections that go with a playlist but DVDs only have a few .vob files that go with the .ifo. Or are the actual .vob files different under each .ifo that goes with a particular VTS? I noticed when I played the movie with VLC and looked at the title it picked it didn't have any relation to the VTS files that were listed under dvd decrypter. Is there a way to tell which VTS VLC is playing? Or another program that will give you that info?

I had already returned the DVD so I did a test tonight with a Top Gun DVD I have and loaded it into makemkv. It doesn't have obfuscation since it's old but when I did save to mkv makemkv saved 2 files as there at 2 VTS listed (one widescreen, one 4:3). Does that mean makemkv doesn't know which VTS is correct and saves them all? Anyways since this is new to me any light people can shed on this and how to rip these obfuscated DVDs would be much appreciated.

[Grauhaar]

There is no DVD obfuscation!!

Why are you working with VTS (Title metadata) and VOB (Video Object files)? Per definition one single VOB file is 1GB and it is part of the complete movie. If the movie is 6,5GB, you have 6 1GB VOBs and one with 0,5GB. The VOBs (one set) are numberd (0-9) and all together are one title. And why are you using "dvd decrypter" if you are using MakeMKV?

Select the wanted title in MakeMKV and MakeMKV selects the needed VTS (VOB files).

[Lovely Rita]

There is no DVD obfuscation!!.

Apparently you’ve not loaded any Lionsgate DVD’s?

Their DVD’s, when loaded, will display multiple main feature titles just like their Blu-ray’s.
The most recent one I worked with was Chappaquiddick.
It’s not as easy as just selecting the wanted title.

[johng]

Yes exactly. I also ripped Chappaquiddick a week or so ago but didn't post at the time as I thought that might be an exception, but clearly this is starting to happen with more titles. So if anyone wants to answer my original questions to help me going forward that would be great.

There is no DVD obfuscation!!.

Apparently you’ve not loaded any Lionsgate DVD’s?

Their DVD’s, when loaded, will display multiple main feature titles just like their Blu-ray’s.
The most recent one I worked with was Chappaquiddick.
It’s not as easy as just selecting the wanted title.

[Lovely Rita]

Yes exactly. I also ripped Chappaquiddick a week or so ago but didn't post at the time as I thought that might be an exception, but clearly this is starting to happen with more titles. So if anyone wants to answer my original questions to help me going forward that would be great.

This has been happening for years with Lionsgate discs and unfortunately there is no "easy" way.
Chappaquiddick, I will say, was easier than previous Lionsgate discs I've encountered. Makemkv displayed 5 titles to choose so I ripped all 5 at the same time and only Title 55 (IIRC) finished with no errors. The other 4 listed all kinds of errors. It was also the same title that my DVD player consistently showed as playing. Some Lionsgate discs when played in a DVD player will show that it's playing TitleXX when clicking play on the menu but if you stop or eject and play again I have seen some that will display as many as 6 different titles, so the old trick of playing it first in a DVD player will not always work Lionsgate.

[johng]

I have a Oppo BDP-103 and wondering if it shows the Title? But then again the Title and the VTS aren't really related, at least that's what I've seen when I play the DVD via VLC. Is there a way to find out what VTS goes with what Title?

Yes exactly. I also ripped Chappaquiddick a week or so ago but didn't post at the time as I thought that might be an exception, but clearly this is starting to happen with more titles. So if anyone wants to answer my original questions to help me going forward that would be great.

This has been happening for years with Lionsgate discs and unfortunately there is no "easy" way.
Chappaquiddick, I will say, was easier than previous Lionsgate discs I've encountered. Makemkv displayed 5 titles to choose so I ripped all 5 at the same time and only Title 55 (IIRC) finished with no errors. The other 4 listed all kinds of errors. It was also the same title that my DVD player consistently showed as playing. Some Lionsgate discs when played in a DVD player will show that it's playing TitleXX when clicking play on the menu but if you stop or eject and play again I have seen some that will display as many as 6 different titles, so the old trick of playing it first in a DVD player will not always work Lionsgate.

[bmillham]

I had run into this with the The Vietnam War collection. 2 discs had many main titles.

I just opened the disc with VLC and from the main menu of the disc started to play it. Then from VLC you can see what title it's playing. That's the one to open in MakeMKV. (For more info http://makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16778 )

[johng]

The "open dvd manually" (from the old thread link you posted) is actually "open dvd files manually" if you go under the "File" menu, so this doesn't work with the actual DVD disc. You can click on that anyways with the disc and it gives a warning that it will probably fail, and then I selected the video_ts.ifo file and then it failed. But then I saw the box you can check on the main screen to "open dvd manually", so just wanted to clear that up for anyone trying this. Since I don't have the actual DVD that had the issue anymore it's difficult to debug as I can only try things with old DVDs I have that are prior to this whole obfuscation thing happening. The DVD I've have only has one VTS folder, so I'll have to wait till the next time I get a DVD that has multiple VTS folders and resurrect this thread.

One other thing I did as I was able to save 2 separate VTS files with the original disc (18 and 33). I'm going to compare the video between the two to see if there is any difference and will report back. I started watching the actual movie I ripped from VTS33 and so far it seems OK.

I had run into this with the The Vietnam War collection. 2 discs had many main titles.

I just opened the disc with VLC and from the main menu of the disc started to play it. Then from VLC you can see what title it's playing. That's the one to open in MakeMKV. (For more info http://makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16778 )

[Lovely Rita]

The VLC method or any other player that shows which TITLE it's playing gives a number of false positives with <LIONSGATE> DVD's.
<WONDER> for example, each time you would eject and re-load would cycle through up to 6 different titles.

Open DVD Manually is for when you already know which TITLE you want, insert the TITLE number in the box and process.

Do you have Expert Mode turned on?
Enable Expert mode in makemkv (View --> Preferences --> General --> Expert Mode. Restart makemkv)

[johng]

Yes I have expert mode turned on. Are you saying VLC doesn't play the correct title sometimes for Lions Gate DVDs? That seems odd as you wouldn't be able to watch the DVD on your computer and surely people would complain about that. Or what about WMC does it always show the correct title? I have an Oppo BDP-103 bluray player and I think I can get the title info plugging the dvd in there. I'll have to look in the manual but I think I remember doing it a long time ago for some reason.

The VLC method or any other player that shows which TITLE it's playing gives a number of false positives with <LIONSGATE> DVD's.
<WONDER> for example, each time you would eject and re-load would cycle through up to 6 different titles.

Open DVD Manually is for when you already know which TITLE you want, insert the TITLE number in the box and process.

Do you have Expert Mode turned on?
Enable Expert mode in makemkv (View --> Preferences --> General --> Expert Mode. Restart makemkv)

[Lovely Rita]

Are you saying VLC doesn't play the correct title sometimes for Lions Gate DVDs? That seems odd as you wouldn't be able to watch the DVD on your computer and surely people would complain about that.

No, what I'm saying is that it and others will play the correct feature but can give you a false title number.
I don't have my notes in front of me so don't quote me on the Title numbers but Wonder would show Title 55 on 1st play, Title 62 on second play, etc. It cycled through 6 different Titles.
The IFO files control the navigation so I'm guessing they <LIONSGATE> have buggered it up to confuse the rippers.

Or what about WMC does it always show the correct title?

I don't recognize that.
Is that Windows?
I'm Mac.

I have an Oppo BDP-103 bluray player and I think I can get the title info plugging the dvd in there. I'll have to look in the manual but I think I remember doing it a long time ago for some reason.

IIRC the info button will bring up the On Screen Display and will show current title number.

[johng]

WMC is windows media center which uses windows media player as the default video player on Windows PCs. I was just wondering if it might be better than VLC in terms of giving the correct title. I'll have to wait till I get another obfuscated DVD to test all this stuff out.

Are you saying VLC doesn't play the correct title sometimes for Lions Gate DVDs? That seems odd as you wouldn't be able to watch the DVD on your computer and surely people would complain about that.

No, what I'm saying is that it and others will play the correct feature but can give you a false title number.
I don't have my notes in front of me so don't quote me on the Title numbers but Wonder would show Title 55 on 1st play, Title 62 on second play, etc. It cycled through 6 different Titles.
The IFO files control the navigation so I'm guessing they <LIONSGATE> have buggered it up to confuse the rippers.

Or what about WMC does it always show the correct title?

I don't recognize that.
Is that Windows?
I'm Mac.

I have an Oppo BDP-103 bluray player and I think I can get the title info plugging the dvd in there. I'll have to look in the manual but I think I remember doing it a long time ago for some reason.

IIRC the info button will bring up the On Screen Display and will show current title number.

[johng]

I got one of these obfuscated disks from the library and have been playing around with it. The disc is "You Were Never Really Here", and if I open it on my PC with VLC to play it it always opens Title 33. It's not one of the disks that really messes with you by playing a different title each time, but it does have 30 VTS'es with many having the same total movie time. When I originally posted I wanted to know how you figure out what title goes with what VTS, and I think I figured out how to determine that (and rip the correct movie).

When you first open MKV and select File/Open Disc it will give the output below and try to figure out all the real chapters (notice near the end that title 33 - the one VLC will always pick - has a total time of 1:29:48). For this disc it found 10 possible valid titles out of 34. It then lists all those titles with a checked box in front so you can rip them all if want (I did just to show the output below). But out of the 10 it found, only 6 have 16 chapters and a reasonable total size (those 4 that don't have 16 chapters can be unchecked). Then you can select / click on each of the remaining 6 and on the right hand pane it gives "Title Information", and one of those items is "Duration". After clicking through all six I find that only one has a duration of 1:29:48 (title06.mkv) that matches the Title 33 total time I mentioned above. Looks like that is probably our movie, so uncheck all but that one. While MakeMKV is ripping the title it will put the source file VTS it is using in the information window (in this case VTS_19).

As I said I ripped all six just to make sure. Once all the files are ripped you can see in the 2nd log file that 1 of the 6 (title04.mkv) failed to save, and then all the files that were saved except for 1 (title06.mkv) had this error "AV synchronization issues were found in file 'E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title0x.mkv'". So looks like title06.mkv really is the right file. To verify you can open up two instances of VLC and play the original DVD in one, and title06.mkv in the other. Then use playback/chapter or playback/jump to specific time to make sure the video lines up.

Another great enhancement to MakeMKV would be when it lists the 10 possible valid titles that it gives the actual title! Currently it just has all 10 and they are called just "Title". And if the source VTS could also be put here (or in the Title Information pane) another big plus.

Anyways hope this helps. I plan to get Chappaquiddick and Wonder from the library just to test out a few more of these disks to make sure this process works for more than this DVD.

-----------------------------Start Output from File/OpenDisc----------------------------
MakeMKV v1.12.2 win(x64-release) started
The new version 1.12.3 is available for download at http://www.makemkv.com/download/
Using direct disc access mode
Manual String parse error : string is empty
Failed to open disc
Using direct disc access mode
Title #1 has length of 37 seconds which is less than minimum title length of 120 seconds and was therefore skipped
Title #2 has length of 30 seconds which is less than minimum title length of 120 seconds and was therefore skipped
Cells 2-4 were skipped due to cell commands (structure protection?)
Title #5 was added (16 cell(s), 1:27:15)
Title #6 was added (3 cell(s), 0:05:32)
Title #15 has length of 5 seconds which is less than minimum title length of 120 seconds and was therefore skipped
Title #16 was added (1 cell(s), 0:16:45)
Title #17 was added (1 cell(s), 0:17:45)
Title #20 was added (18 cell(s), 1:32:45)
Cells 2-4 were skipped due to cell commands (structure protection?)
Title #21 was added (16 cell(s), 1:27:52)
CellWalk algorithm failed (structure protection is too tough?), trying CellTrim algorithm
Cells 1-1 were removed from title start
Cells 18-18 were removed from title end
Title #22 was added (16 cell(s), 1:29:48)
Cells 2-4 were skipped due to cell commands (structure protection?)
Title #24 was added (16 cell(s), 1:27:18)
Cells 2-4 were skipped due to cell commands (structure protection?)
Title #25 was added (16 cell(s), 1:27:51)
CellWalk algorithm failed (structure protection is too tough?), trying CellTrim algorithm
Cells 1-1 were removed from title start
Cells 18-18 were removed from title end
Title #26 was added (16 cell(s), 1:29:48)
CellWalk algorithm failed (structure protection is too tough?), trying CellTrim algorithm
Cells 1-1 were removed from title start
Cells 18-18 were removed from title end
Title #27 was added (16 cell(s), 1:29:48)
Title #28/0/2 was added (1 cell(s), 0:07:13)
Title #29 was added (18 cell(s), 1:32:45)
CellWalk algorithm failed (structure protection is too tough?), trying CellTrim algorithm
Cells 1-1 were removed from title start
Cells 18-18 were removed from title end
Title #30 was added (16 cell(s), 1:29:48)
Title #31 was added (18 cell(s), 1:32:45)
Title #32 was added (18 cell(s), 1:32:45)
CellWalk algorithm failed (structure protection is too tough?), trying CellTrim algorithm
Cells 1-1 were removed from title start
Cells 18-18 were removed from title end
Title #33 was added (16 cell(s), 1:29:48)
Title #34 was added (18 cell(s), 1:32:45)
Title 1 in VTS 17 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 1 in VTS 17 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 1 in VTS 17 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 2 in VTS 17 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 1 in VTS 19 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 1 in VTS 19 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 1 in VTS 19 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Title 1 in VTS 19 is equal to title 1 and was skipped
Operation successfully completed
-----------------------------End Output from File/OpenDisc----------------------------

-----------------------------Start Output from Ripping----------------------------
Saving 6 titles into directory E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816
AV synchronization issues were found in file 'E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title00.mkv' (title #1)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:40.947 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:41.531 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:43.483 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:44.033 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:45.485 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:46.035 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:46.986 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:47.537 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:47.987 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:49.038 : video frame timecode differs by +152.485s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:49.038 : too many video frames with invalid timecodes, future messages will be suppressed
AV sync issue in stream 1 at 0:04:40.736 with duration of 1360.78ms : audio gap - 42.524 missing frame(s)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 1:27:23.004 : video stream has 10169 frames with invalid timecodes
AV synchronization issues were found in file 'E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title04.mkv' (title #5)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 1:29:55.490 : video frame timecode differs by -16.688ms
AV sync issue in stream 1 at 1:29:55.488 with duration of 777.778ms : audio gap - 24.305 missing frame(s)
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'OS error - STATUS_DEVICE_DATA_ERROR' occurred while reading '\Device\CdRom0' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'OS error - STATUS_DEVICE_DATA_ERROR' occurred while reading '\Device\CdRom0' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'OS error - STATUS_DEVICE_DATA_ERROR' occurred while reading '\Device\CdRom0' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'OS error - STATUS_DEVICE_DATA_ERROR' occurred while reading '\Device\CdRom0' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'OS error - STATUS_DEVICE_DATA_ERROR' occurred while reading '\Device\CdRom0' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Error 'Scsi error - MEDIUM ERROR:UNRECOVERED READ ERROR' occurred while reading '/VIDEO_TS/VTS_17_1.VOB' at offset '3754733568'
Failed to save title 4 to file E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title04.mkv
AV synchronization issues were found in file 'E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title05.mkv' (title #6)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:17.433 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:18.017 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:19.969 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:20.520 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:21.971 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:22.522 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:23.473 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:24.023 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:24.474 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:25.525 : video frame timecode differs by +115.999s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:25.525 : too many video frames with invalid timecodes, future messages will be suppressed
AV sync issue in stream 1 at 0:05:17.216 with duration of 672.174ms : audio gap - 21.005 missing frame(s)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 1:27:59.490 : video stream has 10169 frames with invalid timecodes
AV synchronization issues were found in file 'E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title07.mkv' (title #8)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:43.950 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:44.534 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:46.486 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:47.036 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:48.488 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:49.038 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:49.989 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:50.540 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:50.990 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:52.041 : video frame timecode differs by +149.482s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:04:52.041 : too many video frames with invalid timecodes, future messages will be suppressed
AV sync issue in stream 1 at 0:04:43.776 with duration of 2297.601ms : audio gap - 71.8 missing frame(s)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 1:27:26.007 : video stream has 10169 frames with invalid timecodes
AV synchronization issues were found in file 'E:/Video/_YOU_WERE_NEVER_REALLY_HERE_3816/title08.mkv' (title #9)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:16.933 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:17.517 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:19.469 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:20.019 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:21.471 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:22.021 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:22.972 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:23.523 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:23.973 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:25.024 : video frame timecode differs by +116.499s
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 0:05:25.024 : too many video frames with invalid timecodes, future messages will be suppressed
AV sync issue in stream 1 at 0:05:16.736 with duration of 1152.174ms : audio gap - 36.005 missing frame(s)
AV sync issue in stream 0 at 1:27:58.990 : video stream has 10169 frames with invalid timecodes
Encountered 11 errors of type 'Read Error' - see http://www.makemkv.com/errors/dvdread/
5 titles saved, 1 failed
-----------------------------End Output from Ripping----------------------------

[Woodstock]

One thing about title numbers - MakeMKV only counts titles that are at least as long as your minimum title length in preferences.

[johng]

Great suggestion, I changed my minimum title length and it cleaned up the 4 titles I mentioned in the previous post, so now I just get the "real" possible titles. My library also had Chappaquiddick and Wonder which are two other obfuscated titles. Going to try out the new procedure and see how it works on those titles. If I get similar good results I'll post the results and process.