23.976 fps

[Cucu Spiridon]

I have tested this program and it works fine. This is exactly people needs to archive their collections without compromising video and audio quality.
Subtitles still doesn't work properly yet, but I'm confident they will work just fine.
Two new features should be added:
1.Enable 23.976 fps for NTSC DVD video content (this will improve playback video quality)
2.Force 16:9 aspect ratio (this will solve some issues when ripping some DVD's)

[Krobar]

I have tested this program and it works fine. This is exactly people needs to archive their collections without compromising video and audio quality.
Subtitles still doesn't work properly yet, but I'm confident they will work just fine.
Two new features should be added:
1.Enable 23.976 fps for NTSC DVD video content (this will improve playback video quality)
2.Force 16:9 aspect ratio (this will solve some issues when ripping some DVD's)

1. This is a function of the player. My Oppo BDP-83 can do this with DVD rips played back over DLNA.
2. That could be useful as there are a couple of DVD which are incorrectly flagged. The devs might correct me on this but I'm pretty sure the design ethos for MakeMKV is not to alter the stream in any way from the orginial so you would have to use some sort of third party software to do this.

[robotman]

I am seeing a related issue to #1 with the mkv's from makemkv. So far this seems to be happening with rips from older DVD's. The Blurays and new DVDs I've tried work fine.

I'll use Bad Boys as an example... I open the DVD itself in:

MakeMkv - 29.97 fps
VLC - 23.976
Handbrake - 23.976
XBMC - 23.976

Then I rip the dvd in MakeMkv and open the mkv in:
VLC - 29.97
Handbrake - 59.94
XBMC - 59.94

At this point the file doesn't play very well. If I then transcode using Handbrake and force it to 23.97 it is fine. But this is not a very good process for getting clean rips of dvds... and I have a lot in my collection to do!

Up until this point I just copy the DVD to an ISO using k3b and then trasncode with Handbrake and never had any issues with frame rates. I really like how MakeMKV not only supports bluray but breaks apart the DVD into separate titles. Anyone have an insight into automatically determining the correct framerates?

[robotman]

Ok, I take it back... its not just older DVDs. I pulled out a bunch of fairly new DVDs and tested them out. 90% of them are ripping at 29.97 fps when they are clearly 23.97 fps vids. I upgraded from MakeMkv 1.5.5 to 1.5.6 as well with no change.

Cucu, as the originator of this thread... does this sound similar to what you are seeing?

[Krobar]

Ok, I take it back... its not just older DVDs. I pulled out a bunch of fairly new DVDs and tested them out. 90% of them are ripping at 29.97 fps when they are clearly 23.97 fps vids. I upgraded from MakeMkv 1.5.5 to 1.5.6 as well with no change.

Cucu, as the originator of this thread... does this sound similar to what you are seeing?

DVD NEVER supported storage as 24FPS. DVD stores film as 59.94/60I(In the case of NTSC). It is then up to the PLAYBACK device to perform 3:2 pulldown to acheive smooth film playback, if you are getting trouble with film cadence detection then you need to look at your playback software or the video processing settings in the display deivce. MakeMKV is correct if you are ripping in the original format as stored on the disc. The other programs maybe reporting playback rate with 3:2 pulldown applied, MakeMKV should report the original storage format as on the disc.

Edit: Maybe MakeMKV isnt maintaining Flags in the video stream? My setup would not be affected as it is analyses frames rather than flags in the MPEG stream.

[Wasabi]

As far as problem #2, this is also not an issue with MakeMKV. Bulletproof is an example of a DVD that doesn't have the right aspect ratio when made into an MKV. Editing the header doesn't help, nor does demuxing and remuxing with MKVToolNix. However, demuxing with TSMuxer and remuxing with MKVToolNix and manually setting the AR does work.

I'm guessing that some players get the info from the stream and others only from the header, and the stream flags aren't set right on the dodgy DVDs. Or not.

[Cucu Spiridon]

Ok, I take it back... its not just older DVDs. I pulled out a bunch of fairly new DVDs and tested them out. 90% of them are ripping at 29.97 fps when they are clearly 23.97 fps vids. I upgraded from MakeMkv 1.5.5 to 1.5.6 as well with no change.

Cucu, as the originator of this thread... does this sound similar to what you are seeing?

That is true. Almost NTSC DVD's are at 23.976 fps, except the some TV shows that are encoded at 29.970 fps.
Rippig movie based DVD's (at 23.976 fps) to 29.970 fps is not good. Playback quality is compromise.
Hopefuly next release will fix this problem.

[Chest Rockwell]

Okay, you guys are making me nervous. I love MakeMKV and have backed-up hundreds of my DVD's and Blu-Ray's to my computer in the last couple of months.

Do I understand correctly that MakeMKV does not accurately preserve the frame rate of the program? I would have thought that frame rate is a function of the program material and the player rather than the MKV container.

[crowfax]

Do I understand correctly that MakeMKV does not accurately preserve the frame rate of the program?

The frame rate is accurately preserved. It's a lack of support in players that are causing these issues. Taking VLC as an example, when it sees an NTSC DVD (which is always 29.97fps) it looks at the flags in the data stream to see if it should be played back at 23.97fps. When VLC sees a 29.97fps MKV file, it doesn't look for flags, it just plays the file at 29.97fps.

I would have thought that frame rate is a function of the program material and the player rather than the MKV container.

You can force a framerate using MKVmergeGUI, but again it's down to the player if it wants to pay attention to the container metadata.

Short version: Don't panic.

[technofeeliak]

Hi, I was having trouble myself as I noticed obvious interlacing effects in the DVDs I backed up.
You see, I was attempting to upscale them.
My process began with ripping my old films like "Three Amigos" from Warner Bros. with MakeMKV.
The next step involved using Handbrake to reencode the video to 1280x720.
For the most part it would do a great job.
But then there would be a strange lag toward the end of playback.
There was also the interlacing.
I haven't completed my tests yet to see if this solution of mine will work, but I'm guessing the frames are out of sync because the frame rate was changed.
It's really very limiting what MakeMKV imposes as an automatic change in the frame rate.
I've resorted to ripping my DVDs with DVDFab as a result.
And I can clearly see that DVDFab creates a 29.97/fps video file as a series of .vob.
I can always make one file out of several using Avidemux, keeping the original audio and chapter markers. I just append them to the first.
I'll try to upscale again in Handbrake and see if I still get the interlaced distortion effect.
Crossing my fingers. I have over 6,500 films to backup.

[chansavat]

DVD NEVER supported storage as 24FPS. DVD stores film as 59.94/60I(In the case of NTSC). It is then up to the PLAYBACK device to perform 3:2 pulldown to acheive smooth film playback, if you are getting trouble with film cadence detection then you need to look at your playback software or the video processing settings in the display deivce. MakeMKV is correct if you are ripping in the original format as stored on the disc. The other programs maybe reporting playback rate with 3:2 pulldown applied, MakeMKV should report the original storage format as on the disc.

Edit: Maybe MakeMKV isnt maintaining Flags in the video stream? My setup would not be affected as it is analyses frames rather than flags in the MPEG stream.

That's not true. DVD support soft telecine, aka video is encoded in progressive 23.946/24fps and flags are inserted to indicate to DVD player how to do 3:2(NTSC) pulldown to turn it into interlaced. MakeMKV will never re-encode video from progressive to interlaced using those flags. Its just not what it does, it just grabs video stream and repackages it into MKV container.

On lower budget DVDs hard telecine can be used, aka original source was 23.946/24fps ... then telecine was applied to turn it to interlaced ... and interlaced video was encoded into DVD.

Ppl indicated video players (VLC, Kodi) as source for reporting frame rates. That's is wrong, if the video is interlaced - the player will report framerate that its playing at. And that depends on mode of de-interlacing that player has chosen or has been forced to by user. Use MediaInfo or tools like it to see the video info.

So my guess, DVD in question is true interlaced video. Your player might detect its a hard telecined and switched to deinterlacing mode that reverses it (hence it is reporting it is playing at 23.976/24fps). Or your player settings forces it to use this deinterlacing mode.

Now if your DVD is truly hard telecine AND video was straight away encoded into DVD without editing. Reversing hard telecine would give "perfect" result. But thats mostly not the case, and video often gets edited after hard telecine. Editing destroys perfect hard telecine order of frames ... and you get interlaced artifacts (combing) at places where it was edited.

EDIT: see this on detail explanation of telecine, hard telecine, soft telecine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

So in short ... if MakeMKV rips your DVD as interlaced ... it is interlaced.