What are you streaming to that supports forced subtitles?

[boe_d]

Hello,

I love MakeMKV! I have an issue with my current player (Oppo 103). It plays back excellent picture quality and using mezzmo I can now search and play movies easily. There are a number of ways they could improve the Oppo 103 which is top notch as a BD player when it comes to streaming. My biggest issue is that I can't get forced subtitles (or any subtitles for that matter) when streaming MKV.

It has some features I love
1. a real RJ45 network connection (it has wireless too but that sucks)
2. An IR remote - I can still use my Harmony One
3. It handles DTS-MA and TrueHD (although it doesn't handle LPCM)

If I could get these 3 features AND forced subs I'd really have a great player for my streaming mkv files.

If you have something that can handle those first 3 items and can also handle the forced subs my oppo can't I'd be very interested in knowing as I have a LOT of movies with forced subs.

[Woodstock]

Subtitles in general are a weak point of players, especially when talking about "streaming" and "bluray/PGS subtitles".

I have players from Asus, Micca, Seagate, Uebo, and Google (Chromecast), along with a "SmartStik" Android computer that plays streaming and a couple of Samsung "smart tvs". None of them understands the concept of "forced subtitles", except as a track that only contains forced subtitles, and nothing else. If that track is the first subtitle track, the Micca and Uebo will play it by default, Seagate will play it if it isn't PGS, and Chromecast and Samsung will ignore it completely if it isn't SRT or ASS text-based subtitles. (Android has so many different players available, it's hard to say what any given one supports)

The only thing that works 100% of the time across all devices is using Handbrake to burn the forced subtitles into the video. What works 80% of the time is to make sure the forced subtitles are the first subtitle track.

[boe_d]

Very detailed and helpful - thank you!

[boe_d]

I'm not familiar with handbrake. Can I reconvert an MKV and force the sub? Will handbrake reduce the audio or video quality?

[Woodstock]

Handbrake, which you can find by visiting handbrake.fr, is a program to recode the video and audio, and can do a great many things in the process.

Any time you recode the video and audio, you lose some quality, because (with few exceptions) you start with data that has already been compressed using lossy codecs. The question is, can you perceive the degradation? You can chose the level that you want to compress things, and make decisions based upon the source data and target for playing it.

Example: An anime film I just ran through is 16GB on the Bluray. The 1080p re-encoded file is 3.3GB as an MKV with switchable subtitles and 4 audio tracks intact. The MP4 version I did drops the non-forced subtitle track, burns the forced subtitles into the video, and only has the English audio recoded for maximum compatibility with my playback devices; it finished up at 2.8GB.

A movie with lots of motion or background detail won't compress as well.

Since it is free, you lose nothing but time to play with it, to see if the results are good or bad in your eyes. It will strain your hardware (good for heating the computer area with your CPU), because it is computationally intensive.

[Romansh]

Any time you recode the video and audio, you lose some quality, because (with few exceptions) you start with data that has already been compressed using lossy codecs.

That's not the reason though. You lose quality because you're using a lossy codec for output, not input. If you don't mind your output being 10 times as large as the input and unplayable on anything except a computer, HandBrake can re-encode your file losslessly

[boe_d]

Thanks for the replies.

I wonder is it possible if they'll put this feature in MakeMKV at some point?

[Woodstock]

Doubtful that MakeMKV would try to keep up with tools like Handbrake on the encoding front... Mike seems to get enough mental exercise trying to keep up with the copy protection schemes people dream up!

[boe_d]

Is there any program like handbrake that I can use to convert my existing mkvs and hardcode the subtitles without significantly increasing the size of the file but with no degradation in quality video or audio?

[Woodstock]

Handbrake will do pretty much what you are asking for - in fact, some sources get SIGNIFICANTLY smaller when converting from DVD or BD sources, with little change in quality (the amount is adjustable, depending on your preferences.

Converting a BD anime series with handbrake, retaining 1080p resolution, can reduce the size by 80%, even with burning in subtitles along the way. Noisy background or fast motion reduces the amount of compression (more data has to be kept in the file), but it is rare to NOT see a smaller file size.

[boe_d]

Handbrake will do pretty much what you are asking for - in fact, some sources get SIGNIFICANTLY smaller when converting from DVD or BD sources, with little change in quality (the amount is adjustable, depending on your preferences.

Converting a BD anime series with handbrake, retaining 1080p resolution, can reduce the size by 80%, even with burning in subtitles along the way. Noisy background or fast motion reduces the amount of compression (more data has to be kept in the file), but it is rare to NOT see a smaller file size.

Thanks- is there any way to set it to make it not try compression? Or another program that does this?

[Woodstock]

You can't burn subtitles into the video without decoding it, merging the subtitle image to the picture, then re-encoding it. Since the original has been compressed, NOT compressing it is going to make the file size grow substantially!

[boe_d]

You can't burn subtitles into the video without decoding it, merging the subtitle image to the picture, then re-encoding it. Since the original has been compressed, NOT compressing it is going to make the file size grow substantially!

Thanks - then I should say no more compressed than the original.

[Woodstock]

I would have to defer to those on forum.handbrake.fr that know about these things, but... the "RF" setting on handbrake is generally how you balance the image quality of the source vs. the capabilities of your target playback devices. And it's "weird" in that higher numbers mean LOWER image quality.

But, remember, since it's free, it doesn't cost anything but your time to PLAY. See what works for your eyes and ears.

[ndjamena]

Quantization Parameter (QP). Residuals are transformed into the spatial frequency domain by an integer transform that approximates the familiar Discrete Cosine Transform (DCT). The Quantization Parameter determines the step size for associating the transformed coefficients with a finite set of steps. Large values of QP represent big steps that crudely approximate the spatial transform, so that most of the signal can be captured by only a few coefficients. Small values of QP more accurately approximate the block's spatial frequency spectrum, but at the cost of more bits. In H.264, each unit increase of QP lengthens the step size by 12% and reduces the bitrate by roughly 12%.

The quality controls Handbrake uses aren't their doing, it's not x264s doing either, it's actually built into the h.264 codec and they have to use it to stay within specs.

And we're about quality here, not bitrate and the value is pretty much how different a frame or macroblock is to the original. 0 = no difference (and the higher bitrate is arbitrary).