Best way to get subtitles to show up on TV Blu-ray player?

[HartleySan]

I know that MakeMKV copies over subtitles if you select them, but no matter what I do, the subtitles, while selectable from my TV Blu-ray player, never show up on the screen when I play an MKV from my TV Blu-ray player.
This is a problem and I definitely want the subtitles on the screen, even if the only option is to make them permanent and non-toggleable on the MKV.

As such, what is the best way to get subtitles to show up on the screen when playing the MKV from a TV Blu-ray player?
If there is a solution available directly through MakeMKV, then great, but if not, could you please tell me what programs I need to use and how to use them?

Thank you. Obviously, the simplest free option is ideal.

[Chetwood]

Many players ignore flags so even if MakeMKV sets the file to tell your player to show the sub, the player can still ignore it.

[Woodstock]

As mentioned, subtitles aren't the easiest things to deal with, because software does things differently on different devices.

In some cases, using the WDTV profile, which compresses the PGS subtitles on Bluray rips, can make the subtitles work. You have to enable "Expert mode" in your preferences to be able to select profiles, though.

But some devices will refuse to use PGS subtitles that are in MKV files. They will see them (maybe), but not display them. Sometimes, a firmware upgrade will fix this, sometimes not.

The most "reliable" way to get subtitles to display is to use a tool like handbrake (handbrake.fr) to "burn" the desired subtitle track into the video. This is only useful if you're not wanting "switchable" subtitles, that is, you're only putting the foreign audio track into the file, OR you are only putting the "forced" subtitles in, using the dubbed audio track. I have to do this for my Android devices.

[HartleySan]

Woodstock, thank you very much for your reply.
I will attempt the WDTV profile first, and see if that works.
If not, I will attempt Handbrake.

Can Handbrake processing MKV files directly?
Thanks.

[Woodstock]

Yes, handbrake works well with MKV files for input, and can write either MKV or MP4 on output.

MP4 has a lot more restrictions on what goes into it than MKV, of course, one being that PGS subtitles can only be burned in for MP4.

[HartleySan]

Thanks again, Woodstock.
As you said, I was able to burn the subtitles into the video with Handbrake. Very cool.

Unfortunately, the video quality seems to be greatly reduced with Handbrake.
How can I produce an output file that is identical to the input MKV file, with the only difference being the subtitles?
Thanks.

[Woodstock]

Handbrake support is done over at forum.handbrake.fr ... They will want to see the logs from your encode to be able to tell you what to tweak.

Generally speaking, if you use the profile "High Profile" (default is "Normal"), the results are pretty good. Under the "Video" tab, you can play around with the "Quality" slider, but smaller numbers (better quality) mean bigger files.

[HartleySan]

After inquiring on the Handbrake forums, it turns out that Handbrake always encodes the video at a lower quality than the original, even if you select the "High Quality" option.
As such, Handbrake is not an acceptable option, as far as I am concerned.

Are there any other options that would allow me to preserve the video/audio quality of the MKV that MakeMKV produces, but also have subtitles show up on all TV Blu-ray players?
Thanks.

[Woodstock]

The only way to have it work on "all" players is to burn the subtitles into the video... which means recoding the video after that's done. This means that they're no longer switchable, so you can't decide to turn them off.And, while you can have Handbrake recode it at near-lossless levels if you have the disk space, the fact is that the BD itself was encoded in a lossy manner, so some detail was gone before you got it.

The only way to make it work on "your" player without recoding is to purchase a player that is compatible with PGS subtitles in an MKV file. I do not know which ones those are - I have no idea if my BD player supports ANYTHING across the network, because it hasn't been powered on in several years.

There are a lot of media players (no BD drive built in) that do it; I own two. There's no problem with an "extra remote", because the BD player isn't even in the system.

Actually, there is another way - using the "Backup" feature, and not use MKV files at all. That will work with more BD players. The files will be stored as m2ts files, which is the native format of BD, so the player should have no issues with giving you the exact same choices as if you had the disk in its drive.

[HartleySan]

That backup feature is really cool and one that I did not know about.
I tried to use the backup feature for a DVD though, and couldn't seem to do it.
Is there a way to use it for a DVD as well?

Thanks again.

[Woodstock]

No, the backup feature is not available for DVD. Probably because there aren't so many weird options for video, audio, and subtitle encodings on DVD as there are on BD.

[HartleySan]

All right. Thank you.
What's the best DVD backup software then?
Thanks.

[Woodstock]

"Best" is very subjective... If you're trying to maintain menus and everything else, you need something that creates an ISO file from the DVD, with the encryption removed. There are several out there, varying in price from "free" to over USD100.

You won't benefit from any potential size reductions using image backups, though.

[HartleySan]

Sorry for the vague question.
When I said "best", I meant a program that is free, does not compress the video / reduce the file size, and works on DVDs with any level of copy protection on them.
I don't care about the menus, etc. In fact, I'd ideally like to be able to rip certain sets/chapters from a DVD and put them on an external USB drive, so I can easily play lots of different videos from my Blu-ray player without having to swap discs and mess with the menus.

Thank you.

Edit: If the program is good, I'm willing to spend some money on it (after all, I did pay for MakeMKV, and I love it, minus the subtitle issues), but I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars either.

[Woodstock]

Not an endorsement, but a data point:

Do a search for "BDlot DVD ISO Master". It is a free (but reportedly abandoned) project that will read "any" DVD and create an ISO file of it.

I have used it, and it has created ISO files, but... I have no trust for it, so it is only set up on an isolated machine, and only run when nothing else seems to work... Like on disk 7 of my KOR disk set.