Feature request: Empty Subtitle Streams

[Dazkine]

Many Players out there don't give a fuck about MKV default/forced flags and just enable the first Subtitle Stream.

So this is not a problem as long as there is a forced Sub track. But when the first track is a regular subtitle track you have to manually deselect this track.

A workaround could be to add always a dummy subtitle stream as first track if there is no forced sub track on the Disk itself

Example: http://encodingwissen.de/handarbeit/unt ... simulieren [german]

What about an option in MakeMKV to include a dummy subtitle Stream without any subtitles?

[Woodstock]

MakeMKV is going to copy what is ON the disk, not add to it. You can tell it to not copy things (remove unwanted tracks), convert things (audio track converted to FLAC, PGS subtitles compressed with gzip), but not add.

But, you could use something like MKVmerge to merge in an empty SRT track as the first subtitle track, including adding in the "forced" and "default" flags on it, for those players that respect the flags...

[Dazkine]

correct me if iam wrong but MakeMKV is a tool to create MKV Files as far as i know.

There are only softwareplayers like xbmc,vlc, etc that care about flags.

Hardwareplayers don't they just activate the first substream or no stream at all.

So for everyone who uses a Hardwareplayer and does not only keep forced tracks thats a huge problem.

So whats your argument? Just use MakeMKV when you have a softwareplayer?

"you can use other tools for that" is a very stupid argument. "MakeMKV cannot do this so it should not be integrated" is also a stupid argument

I don't get it what you are talking about..

You can tell it to not copy things (remove unwanted tracks), convert things (audio track converted to FLAC, PGS subtitles compressed with gzip), but not add.

I know what MakeMKV can and what it cannot. I asked about integrating a feature not about help.

When I ask about help I wouldnt use the words "feature request" as the subject for the thread

IMO thats a useful feature because all ppl that use hardwareplayers and MKV-Files with more than just forced subtitle tracks a facing the same problem.

[ndjamena]

There are so many 'good ideas' that would 'make MakeMKV a better program' that if Mike tried to add all of them he'd never have time to get the program to do what it's supposed to do.

[Dazkine]

yeah you are right. It's just an idea.

I explained the problem, the solution und why I think this would be useful not just for me.

[Chetwood]

The solution is to turn off your standalones subtitle setting and do that one click on the remote if you realize you need the forced sub.

[Dazkine]

Okay guys, so you are against any features?
Some say "Makemkv shouldnt because it cant" or "there are other tools for that" or "mike should concentrate on other things"

So perhaps its time for a feature freeze? Well its okay if you are against any features but thats not an argument in here.

When you say "nobody needs it" thats an argument.

The solution is to turn off your standalones subtitle setting and do that one click on the remote if you realize you need the forced sub.

Thats not the same. Empty Substitle Streams are a way to simulate force flags behavior on players that don't care about mkv flags.

[Chetwood]

I've always thought John's idea is too much work for little benefit. If you feel the need to have the empty sub stream, it means, you keep your standalone's setting to ON. This would result in the forced sub shown when present and an empty stream rather than the full sub shown when no forced sub is present.
I've turned my standalones to OFF, so if there happens to be a forced sub stream, I realize this immediately and simply press SUB on the remote once. Besides, since forced subs can be authored differently and thus not be detected automatically in some cases, you'd always have to manually check all streams for forced subs, otherwise you'd possibly end up with an empty stream followed by a forced stream. Guess, what's more work?

[ndjamena]

Okay guys, so you are against any features?
Some say "Makemkv shouldnt because it cant" or "there are other tools for that" or "mike should concentrate on other things"

So perhaps its time for a feature freeze? Well its okay if you are against any features but thats not an argument in here.

When you say "nobody needs it" thats an argument.

The solution is to turn off your standalones subtitle setting and do that one click on the remote if you realize you need the forced sub.

Thats not the same. Empty Substitle Streams are a way to simulate force flags behavior on players that don't care about mkv flags.

I'm saying I have a Blu Ray with PCM audio that changes from 24 bit to 16 bit and back again, MakeMKV has no idea how to deal with that and just makes a total mess of it, that's just one of the features I'm waiting for. What I'm not saying is that yours is a terrible idea. There are a lot of people who have been waiting on Mike to implement a lot features for a very long time, you're entitled to ask, just don't get your hopes up. However I will say that what you're experiencing is a problem with your player device and Mike has no obligation to fix it for you, he can if he wants, but it's up to him. I should ask, are you over at your players forums bugging them to create a fix for the issue for you?

By the way, it's up to Mike to decide if these things are worthwhile, not the forum members. My first post here was to ask about end times in chapters on behalf of the developer of MetaX and I was pretty much blasted off the forum. Yet it was implemented in the next update. We have a right to question the worth of your feature request, and there's no point in getting snarky with us about it. We have genuine arguments for why your request should be considered low priority, if you'd like to argue why MakeMKV shouldn't be able to handle titles with variable bit depth PCM and why phantom subtitle tracks to compensate for shoddy players is more important, please, go ahead.

[Dazkine]

We have genuine arguments for why your request should be considered low priority,

okay tell me, because i cant find them.

I think you have an other problem.

We have a right to question the worth of your feature request,

yeah, just read the post. NO Hardwareplayer out there respects mkv flags, so everyone who uses hardwareplayers is facing the problem im talking about. Thats the "worth"

There are a lot of people who have been waiting on Mike to implement a lot features for a very long time

thats the real problem IMO. People are waiting for things to get implemented for a long time and because their feature didnt get implemented they are getting upset and are writing in every "feature request" topic that other features are not important.

Usually you just ignore these threads, there is no need to say "im against this". But i guess i should do the same. The next time some guy come along with some kind of idea im saying that his idea isnt important.

[ndjamena]

My WDTV works fine thankyou. How 'bout you go find your players forum and go bug them about it.

[Dazkine]

as far as i know there are no players out there that respects flags. For example you have 2 sub tracks same language and set the forced flag on track #2. WDTV selects this track automatically?

How 'bout you go find your players forum and go bug them about it.

Well i could but i read many threads and im not the only person who wants to get this implemented, for at least 3years.. So there is no hope. Other people have already asked that question. Im talking aboud HDI Dune Base 3.0, but newer models have the same limitations

[ndjamena]

as far as i know there are no players out there that respects flags. For example you have 2 sub tracks same language and set the forced flag on track #2. WDTV selects this track automatically?

Probably not, it's never come up, but the only way around that would be to re-encode the video and burn in the subtitles, something MakeMKV will never be able to do. However that is a limitation of the WDTV, the WDTV is at fault and if anything should change IT should. There's some ambiguity about how the 'default' flag for subtitles works, but the forced flag is rather self-explanatory. I don't think you've noticed that I haven't said 'no' to your idea but if there was an argument against it it would be this: These players are violating Matroska Specifications in their behaviour. If MakeMKV has any regards for the Matroska Specs at all it should NOT under any circumstances implement this feature. Whether that's a reasonable argument in the real world is open to interpretation.

[Dazkine]

You dont have to reencode so thats Not true. The Players arent violating the specifications, so that also not true

[Chetwood]

NO Hardwareplayer out there respects mkv flags, so everyone who uses hardwareplayers is facing the problem im talking about.

Except of course, the problem is nearly not as big as you make it out to be, hence the low priority for any workarounds that don't deal with the problem: the standalone manufactures inability to adhere to the Matroska standard.

There's some ambiguity about how the 'default' flag for subtitles works

Is it? I think the standard is pretty clear on that. Which of course does not stop software players from implementing it wrong.