What audio formats to choose

[jdgstat]

I'm a little confused on the different audio formats available when converting to MKV. Many movies (Avatar and 300 for example) have TrueHD or DTS-HD as a main audio section with DTS 3/2 +1 as a sub category below TrueHD/DTS. In addition, most movies will have another separate DTS 3.2 +1 that's completely separate from the TrueHD section. I've tested converting using every available combination and I don't see any difference.

I currently have an Onkyo that doesn't support TrueHD or DTS-HD, but the MKVs play just fine. I purchased a Pioneer VSX-1022-K as an upgrade for some of the new features.

Would someone mind explaining the different audio options available in MKV conversions? Thanks!

[HTMLSpinnr]

In most cases with True-HD or DTS-MA, you've got core-audio, which is the DTS/3+2.1 or DD 5.1 mix, plus the HD wrapper. The wrapper is simply the "missing information" from the core to make up the HD soundtrack. For day-to-day use, I simply rip the core audio mix only and ignore the HD formats. This keeps file sizes sane once I run the video through Handbrake. I also tend to transcode DTS down to Dolby Digital/AC3, while keeping the original sound format (i.e. not down-mixing to Stereo w/ Dolby PLIIx), which for 2 hours of DVD material, can often shave 33% or more off the file-size (not quite as much from Blu-Ray, but still significant).

The additional selections may be director commentary, alternate languages, etc. In some cases, a full DD 5.1 mix may be included in addition to a DTS-MA or other HD format. If this mix is theatrical and not commentary, it may save you the trouble of transcoding later on to pick that one instead. The worst you can do is grab all of them, and then use MKVMerge later on to remove the bits you won't use.

If audio quality is more important than disk space utilization, then rip the entire main HD audio track (and other same-language tracks if you like commentary, etc.).

[jdgstat]

If audio quality is more important than disk space utilization, then rip the entire main HD audio track (and other same-language tracks if you like commentary, etc.).

This is the part I'm most concerned with right now. If I want the best for certain movies (action movies, for example) and I see something like this, does selecting only the main DTS-HD and unselecting the other 2 audio formats cause problems elsewhere? I've tested these on my Onkyo (doesn't play DTS-HD or TrueHD) and they seemed to work fine.

Also, one more question regarding extras included on disks. Generally I don't want them, so I'll just rip the main movie. When I do want them, what's the best way to do this without having 9+ different MKV files. Should I have them in a different container than MKV?

[Smithcraft]

You'll have as many extra files as you pick tracks.

If you want a different container, you will have to transcode using something like Handbrake to do that.

SC

[Q-the-STORM]

selecting the HD Audio only should be fine, you won't need the other 2...

Extras are usually all seperate video/audio files, so of course you will get a bunch of mkvs.... but if the files have the same specs (same codecs, same number of channels, same resolution) you can merge all of them to one file with mkvtoolnix...

[jdgstat]

selecting the HD Audio only should be fine, you won't need the other 2...

Extras are usually all seperate video/audio files, so of course you will get a bunch of mkvs.... but if the files have the same specs (same codecs, same number of channels, same resolution) you can merge all of them to one file with mkvtoolnix...

Thanks Q. I'll look into mkvtoolnix. The only issue with converting to MKV seems that you lose the menus to the extras. So if you merge the 3 or 4 MKV files that make up the extras, there's no way to move through the files/sections. Is there any "preferred" or suggested way of making this as easy as possible? I don't watch too many extras, but it's nice to have them in the movie menu format for the occasions when I do.

Thanks again!

[Smithcraft]

I hate disc menus so I keep the extras as separate files and name them appropriately.

SC

[maximus]

In most cases with True-HD or DTS-MA, you've got core-audio, which is the DTS/3+2.1 or DD 5.1 mix, plus the HD wrapper. The wrapper is simply the "missing information" from the core to make up the HD soundtrack.

Just to be certain that I understand you correctly, so if I would rip the movie as pictured below, then I would have incomplete audio?


posted image

And could you elaborate a bit on this wrapper business, what exactly this missing information might entail in practice?

[Woodstock]

You would have the complete DTS-HD MA track, but you would not have the "base" DTS track. If your player can't handle DTS-HD MA, it will not be able to fall back to "just" DTS.

[maximus]

You would have the complete DTS-HD MA track, but you would not have the "base" DTS track. If your player can't handle DTS-HD MA, it will not be able to fall back to "just" DTS.

Edit: Strange, somehow my post got lost here. Anyway, you do realize what you are writing is a contradiction to what HTMLSpinnr wrote? Although I have a hard time imagining this so called 'HD wrapper' exists, with audio either you have lossless or you don't, I'm note quite sure how this would work to have the so called 'missing information' to make something lossless again...

[maximus]

Is there no one here that can give a qualified answer about my audio question? What happens when I rip just the HD audio but not the 'subcategory' non-HD?

[Woodstock]

Um, you quoted my answer to you a couple of days ago. Maybe if I rephrase it?

If you select ONLY the DTS-HD MA track in your example, there is ONLY one audio track. That track is the "full" DTS-HD MA track. If your player cannot handle it, you will have no audio.

Selecting the "DTS Surround 5.1 English" track as well in your example, you would get a SECOND audio track, that contains just the "lossy" portion of the DTS-HD MA track, which is compatible with more players. It gives you a fall-back.

[maximus]

OK, I think I understand where my confusion came from. Please contradict if I am wrong. HTMLSpinnr did not mean to imply that the True-HD or DTS-MA audio track contains just the missing part that makes DTS/3+2.1 or DD 5.1 lossless, but was just describing the difference. True-HD or DTS-MA is a complete audio track on it's own.

However, I still fail to understand why MakeMKV displays the lossy audio track as a 'subcategory' of sorts to the HD one. This implies to me that you cannot have the second without the first, which is not the case. Wouldn't it make sense to list them below each other? Or is there some technical reason for this?

[maximus]

Um, you quoted my answer to you a couple of days ago. Maybe if I rephrase it?

If you select ONLY the DTS-HD MA track in your example, there is ONLY one audio track. That track is the "full" DTS-HD MA track. If your player cannot handle it, you will have no audio.

Selecting the "DTS Surround 5.1 English" track as well in your example, you would get a SECOND audio track, that contains just the "lossy" portion of the DTS-HD MA track, which is compatible with more players. It gives you a fall-back.

On second thought, this makes no sense. Why should a player not be able to handle a lossless audio track? Audio is audio, lossless or no.

[Woodstock]

But that audio is encoded with a codec, and if your player does not support that codec, it cannot play it.