3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

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basthi
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:55 am

3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

Post by basthi »

Hi

I used MakeMKV to generate a MKV MVC 3D from the Bluray 3D...

It's only remuxing, so the video frame should be the same as the original one in MediaInfo...

But there is a problem : In the MKV, Variable Frame Rate is seen by Mediainfo, and not in the main M2TS of the original ISO...

I think there is a confusion between Variable Bitrate and Variable Framerate... :shock:

They are all variable bitrate, but not variable framerate at all !!!

My SideWinder 3 Media player plays perfectly the ISO of the Bluray 3D, but there are stutterings with the MKV 3D MVC generated by MakeMKV...

And when i check the MKV with MediaInfo i see variable framerate, and not in the original main M2TS of the Bluray 3D...

Could you please check if there is a confusion between VBR and VFR ?

Thanks

+++
basthi
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BlackDragon24
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:20 pm

Re: 3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

Post by BlackDragon24 »

basthi wrote:Hi

I used MakeMKV to generate a MKV MVC 3D from the Bluray 3D...

It's only remuxing, so the video frame should be the same as the original one in MediaInfo...

But there is a problem : In the MKV, Variable Frame Rate is seen by Mediainfo, and not in the main M2TS of the original ISO...

I think there is a confusion between Variable Bitrate and Variable Framerate... :shock:

They are all variable bitrate, but not variable framerate at all !!!

My SideWinder 3 Media player plays perfectly the ISO of the Bluray 3D, but there are stutterings with the MKV 3D MVC generated by MakeMKV...

And when i check the MKV with MediaInfo i see variable framerate, and not in the original main M2TS of the Bluray 3D...

Could you please check if there is a confusion between VBR and VFR ?

Thanks

+++
basthi
I've had several media files show me variable frame rate info in mediainfo, and they are most definitely not VFR.

I'm guessing a bug in mediainfo. Your playback problems are most likely a codec problem.
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basthi
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:55 am

Re: 3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

Post by basthi »

Could it be a bug in MakeMKV ?

Maybe the flags VBR and VFR are mixed up in MakeMKV ?

I'm looking for a tool to edit the flags in the MKV...

The ISO is played flawless, but not the MKV... But it supposed to be just remuxed in the MKV... The video track is supposed to be the same...

It should be played flawless too... :roll:

The guys from Xtreamer says that the problem come from the VFR in the video track of the MKV...

But the ISO BD3D is not VFR... :shock:

+++
basthi
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Romansh
Posts: 873
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:09 pm

Re: 3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

Post by Romansh »

There is no such thing as a "variable vs. constant" framerate flag in the MKV specification. Either MakeMKV somehow muxes the track incorrectly or MediaInfo is just not capable of parsing MVC streams correctly.
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basthi
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:55 am

Re: 3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

Post by basthi »

When i use MKVMerge and change the blank frame rate to 23,976 the VFR flag disapear in Mediainfo... ;)

But the stutters are still there... With only the AVC + MVC track and the DTS track...

The ISO is played flawless with DTS HD tracks and a lot of languages... :roll:

I will copy the MediaInfo of the main M2TS and the MKV made by MakeMKV, and then the MKV with the 23,976 modification...

We will compare the 3 MediaInfo... It will be more clear... ;)

+++
basthi
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basthi
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:55 am

Re: 3D : Variable Frame Rate in the MKV 3D MVC ?

Post by basthi »

OK sorry for the delay... Here are all the MediaInfos :

First the biggest M2TS file in The original Bluray 3D (not the full lengh movie) :

Code: Select all

General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : E:\BDMV\STREAM\00001.m2ts
Format                                   : BDAV
Format/Info                              : Blu-ray Video
File size                                : 23.2 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 34.7 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 48.0 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate                                 : 27.4 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.552
Stream size                              : 18.4 GiB (79%)

Audio #1
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : MA / Core
Muxing mode                              : Stream extension
Codec ID                                 : 134
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 731 Kbps / 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless / Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -9ms

Audio #2
ID                                       : 4353 (0x1101)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Format profile                           : Dolby Digital
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 320 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -9ms
Stream size                              : 219 MiB (1%)

Audio #3
ID                                       : 4354 (0x1102)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID                                 : 130
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -9ms
Stream size                              : 1.01 GiB (4%)

Audio #4
ID                                       : 4355 (0x1103)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -9ms
Stream size                              : 439 MiB (2%)

Audio #5
ID                                       : 4356 (0x1104)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 640 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -9ms
Stream size                              : 439 MiB (2%)

Text #1
ID                                       : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #2
ID                                       : 4609 (0x1201)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #3
ID                                       : 4610 (0x1202)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #4
ID                                       : 4611 (0x1203)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #5
ID                                       : 4612 (0x1204)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #6
ID                                       : 4613 (0x1205)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #7
ID                                       : 4614 (0x1206)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #8
ID                                       : 4615 (0x1207)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #9
ID                                       : 4616 (0x1208)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #10
ID                                       : 4617 (0x1209)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #11
ID                                       : 4618 (0x120A)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #12
ID                                       : 4619 (0x120B)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144

Text #13
ID                                       : 4620 (0x120C)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144
Then the MediaInfo of the MKV AVC+MVC 3D made by MakeMKV (full movie) :

Code: Select all

General
Unique ID                                : 188084553536939619197213532173693877663 (0x8D7FC4729470712FD9312D4218F7FD9F)
Complete name                            : C:\3D\Disney's_A_Christmas_Carol_t01.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 31.2 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 46.7 Mbps
Movie name                               : Disney's A Christmas Carol
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-10-10 19:57:23
Writing application                      : MakeMKV v1.7.7 win(x64-release)
Writing library                          : libmakemkv v1.7.7 (1.2.0/1.1.0) win(x64-release)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Stereo High@L4.1 / High@L4.1
MultiView_Count                          : 2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=24
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Bit rate                                 : 41.5 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Original frame rate                      : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : MA / Core
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 746 Kbps / 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless / Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2ms
Title                                    : Lossless
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2ms
Stream size                              : 1.01 GiB (3%)
Title                                    : 3/2+1
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Menu
00:00:00.000                             : en:Chapter 00
00:07:39.459                             : en:Chapter 01
00:16:04.046                             : en:Chapter 02
00:29:14.752                             : en:Chapter 03
00:37:13.230                             : en:Chapter 04
00:41:04.461                             : en:Chapter 05
00:44:54.274                             : en:Chapter 06
00:57:07.090                             : en:Chapter 07
01:01:44.325                             : en:Chapter 08
01:08:41.951                             : en:Chapter 09
01:11:08.013                             : en:Chapter 10
01:16:13.568                             : en:Chapter 11
01:19:31.766                             : en:Chapter 12
01:25:21.866                             : en:Chapter 13
01:27:20.526                             : en:Chapter 14
01:30:19.413                             : en:Chapter 15
The variable framerate is due to no value in the frame per seconde parameter... ;)

Why is there M=3, N=24 in the Format settings, GOP in the MKV made by MAKE MKV ?

Could this explain my problem and how could i change this settings ?

Then i opended this MKV in MKVMerge and modified the fps to 23,976 (24000/1001)

Here is the MediaInfo of this MKV modified :

Code: Select all

General
Unique ID                                : 248699536962068940239654188607974879286 (0xBB19C9DDB1F2888F9CE0EB9BF84F3036)
Complete name                            : N:\3D\Bluray 3D\A CHRISTMAS CAROL 3D\Disney's_A_Christmas_Carol_t01.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 31.2 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 46.7 Mbps
Movie name                               : Disney's A Christmas Carol
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-10-10 23:23:14
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v5.8.0 ('No Sleep / Pillow') built on Sep  2 2012 15:37:04
Writing library                          : libebml v1.2.3 + libmatroska v1.3.0

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Stereo High@L4.1 / High@L4.1
MultiView_Count                          : 2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=24
Muxing mode                              : Header stripping
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate                                 : 41.5 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.834
Stream size                              : 27.8 GiB (89%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : MA / Core
Muxing mode                              : Header stripping
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 746 Kbps / 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless / Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2ms
Title                                    : Lossless
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Muxing mode                              : Header stripping
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2ms
Stream size                              : 1.01 GiB (3%)
Title                                    : 3/2+1
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Menu
00:00:00.000                             : en:Chapter 00
00:07:39.459                             : en:Chapter 01
00:16:04.046                             : en:Chapter 02
00:29:14.752                             : en:Chapter 03
00:37:13.230                             : en:Chapter 04
00:41:04.461                             : en:Chapter 05
00:44:54.274                             : en:Chapter 06
00:57:07.090                             : en:Chapter 07
01:01:44.325                             : en:Chapter 08
01:08:41.951                             : en:Chapter 09
01:11:08.013                             : en:Chapter 10
01:16:13.568                             : en:Chapter 11
01:19:31.766                             : en:Chapter 12
01:25:21.866                             : en:Chapter 13
01:27:20.526                             : en:Chapter 14
01:30:19.413                             : en:Chapter 15
I don't understand why this modified MKV still stutters when the original ISO is played with not a single stutter, on the same player...

If someone understand why please tell me... ;)

+++
basthi
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