Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

trondmm · Post by **trondmm** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:24 pm

Hi.

I have recently ripped Tom and Jerry Golden Collection vol. 1 and Looney Tunes Plantinum Collection vol. 1, and in both cases, I've gotten several duplicate audio and subtitle tracks.

Here's an example from Looney Tunes, disc 1, title 15:

After ripping, I demuxed the file and checked the md5sum of all the tracks:
Audio tracks:

Code: Select all

7661621a5396e6f9af476480bb6c5cb3  2.ac3
7661621a5396e6f9af476480bb6c5cb3  3.ac3
e59a5bbb37668fbd267c451b8ceb4b33  4.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  5.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  6.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  7.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  8.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  9.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  10.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  11.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  12.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  13.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  14.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  15.ac3
1d8b2ed8fc79c81bf21d4cb0c7e98d37  16.ac3

As you can see, track 5 to 16 are identical. This is the commentary track. Track 2 (English) and 3 (German) are also identical, but that seems to be intentional. This particular short does not have German audio.

The subtitles are also interesting

Code: Select all

56cc7be5177ee7a19d15c90b1fbf3523  17.sup
a24f89fb92c17bb8a3c7b6056a76d8ac  18.sup
e11c60d0136b75702c391112416124d4  19.sup
af37dc1ce23f3e8df25032ddd9a5b784  20.sup
af37dc1ce23f3e8df25032ddd9a5b784  21.sup
e11c60d0136b75702c391112416124d4  22.sup
af37dc1ce23f3e8df25032ddd9a5b784  23.sup
af37dc1ce23f3e8df25032ddd9a5b784  24.sup
af37dc1ce23f3e8df25032ddd9a5b784  25.sup
af37dc1ce23f3e8df25032ddd9a5b784  26.sup

22 is a duplicate of 19 (German), and the rest from 20 to 26 are all empty.

The Tom and Jerry cartoons is a bit simpler:

Code: Select all

b9736b3bb03e9d8dbe8b91196ea06590  2.ac3
bd508472731b6ace381d7c93cd61bab3  3.ac3
1e848b206736152a55254b23cc812cd1  4.ac3
d9f375e208f1abcfc9dceaf455dcb34a  5.ac3
d9f375e208f1abcfc9dceaf455dcb34a  6.ac3
d9f375e208f1abcfc9dceaf455dcb34a  7.ac3
6d1dd8aa00a89b2178cb4900cdd077e8  8.ac3
6d1dd8aa00a89b2178cb4900cdd077e8  9.ac3
6d1dd8aa00a89b2178cb4900cdd077e8  10.ac3
57d35c4a558427ad98e9e69de0732bc5  11.sup
42604f99f64d7d920deba7cf332e9f49  13.sup
96a492268e0965988983f49bee701c14  15.sup
96a492268e0965988983f49bee701c14  17.sup
96a492268e0965988983f49bee701c14  19.sup
96a492268e0965988983f49bee701c14  21.sup

In this case, all commentary tracks are copied three times, and the last subtitle track is copied four times.

In all titles with this problem, only the commentary tracks are duplicated. And every title with a commentary track on these discs has this problem.

trondmm · Post by **trondmm** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:44 pm

Ah. This is interesting...

I tested with a different title from the Looney Tunes BD. Title 18 this time.

This title has two commentary tracks, plus two alternate audio tracks (music only and vocals only). The number of audio tracks are the same as the last cartoon, but this time, there are three copies of each commentary/alternate audio track

Code: Select all

b9fecdc777fb03055c2f13ef4963ab61  18/2.ac3
ba8288b19e1941ab572b53f9de114f02  18/3.ac3
e90e4d5f203e7821cefeca22ceeb7bb4  18/4.ac3
6828915e269f8e549148bea74fe1008a  18/5.ac3
6828915e269f8e549148bea74fe1008a  18/6.ac3
6828915e269f8e549148bea74fe1008a  18/7.ac3
1a1ab2d34fa10afa52fd5c75dbf72ba3  18/8.ac3
1a1ab2d34fa10afa52fd5c75dbf72ba3  18/9.ac3
1a1ab2d34fa10afa52fd5c75dbf72ba3  18/10.ac3
56991ad0c8d5d54527f3397e7853e910  18/11.ac3
56991ad0c8d5d54527f3397e7853e910  18/12.ac3
56991ad0c8d5d54527f3397e7853e910  18/13.ac3
9e1392543336ed9de8b473bdb9a32734  18/14.ac3
9e1392543336ed9de8b473bdb9a32734  18/15.ac3
9e1392543336ed9de8b473bdb9a32734  18/16.ac3

setarip_old · Post by **setarip_old** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:09 am

@trondmm

Hi!

A couple of, perhaps, too obvious questions:

1) Have you performed the more basic testing of actually demuxing the suspect streams and playing them?

2) Does the presence of these apparently "extra" streams impact playback in any way - other than the amount of clicking you may have to do with your remote?

The only other thought that comes to mind id that, since this appears to have nothing to do with copy protection, perhaps it's a cheesy way of padding the total disc size, to make it appear that you're "getting more for your money"...

trondmm · Post by **trondmm** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:52 am

setarip_old wrote:1) Have you performed the more basic testing of actually demuxing the suspect streams and playing them?

What do you mean? Have I listened to the extra streams? Yes. Both before and after demuxing. They are the same.

setarip_old wrote:2) Does the presence of these apparently "extra" streams impact playback in any way - other than the amount of clicking you may have to do with your remote?

Not at all. It's just an annoyance, especially since it's hard to know which tracks to leave out during ripping. I basically need to rip, play and remux.

setarip_old wrote:The only other thought that comes to mind id that, since this appears to have nothing to do with copy protection, perhaps it's a cheesy way of padding the total disc size, to make it appear that you're "getting more for your money"...

I guess stranger things has happened, but I wouldn't think so. Each extra audio track is about 10MB, so they don't add more than about 2GB to disc size. Besides, even with this extra stuffing, the disc is just 32GB. If it's an attempt to impress me, it didn't work

However, I also made a full disc rip, with decryption, with MakeMKV, and the m2ts files also seem to have all 15 audio tracks

Code: Select all

$ mkvmerge -i 00098.m2ts 
File '00098.m2ts': container: MPEG2 Transport Stream (TS)
Track ID 0: video (AVC/h.264)
Track ID 1: audio (AC3)
Track ID 2: audio (AC3)
Track ID 3: audio (AC3)
Track ID 4: audio (AC3)
Track ID 5: audio (AC3)
Track ID 6: audio (AC3)
Track ID 7: audio (AC3)
Track ID 8: audio (AC3)
Track ID 9: audio (AC3)
Track ID 10: audio (AC3)
Track ID 11: audio (AC3)
Track ID 12: audio (AC3)
Track ID 13: audio (AC3)
Track ID 14: audio (AC3)
Track ID 15: audio (AC3)
Track ID 16: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 17: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 18: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 19: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 20: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 21: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 22: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 23: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 24: subtitles (HDMV PGS)
Track ID 25: subtitles (HDMV PGS)

So it really does seem like the disc has been mastered with multiple copies of the commentary/alternate audio tracks. When I play the disc in a BD-player, I only get to switch between the unique tracks, though.

I haven't tested to rip the disc with anything else yet. I need to get my Windows machine working again before I can attempt that. So I don't know if other programs are doing a better job at identifying the real tracks.

setarip_old · Post by **setarip_old** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:32 pm

Although I can't put my finger on it, I'm guessing that MakeMKV is misinterpreting something in the disc structure.

If not that, then perhaps the disc simply contains multiple repetitions of .MPLS playlists in an attempt to cause confusion.

Hopefully, "mike admin" will clarify...

Icanseestars · Post by **Icanseestars** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:44 pm

Lots of seemingly duplicate tracks are sometimes alternate video streams were CGI is used to edit text on screen for foreign languages so for example a sign in the video appears in english, german, spanish etc.

Loony Toons seem a bit old for that level of treatment though.

trondmm · Post by **trondmm** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:58 pm

Icanseestars wrote:Lots of seemingly duplicate tracks are sometimes alternate video streams were CGI is used to edit text on screen for foreign languages so for example a sign in the video appears in english, german, spanish etc.

That's not quite the issue here. That would result in multiple similar, but slightly different, titles. In this case, there are only one copy of each title, but multiple, identical copies of audio and subtitle tracks.

Icanseestars wrote:Loony Toons seem a bit old for that level of treatment though.

Why? Snow White was produced with foreign language signs in 1937.

Post by **mike admin** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:36 am

Please send CLPI/M2TS files from this disc, per instructions at http://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8/catid/6 . Thank you.

trondmm · Post by **trondmm** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:50 pm

mike admin wrote:Please send CLPI/M2TS files from this disc, per instructions at http://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8/catid/6 . Thank you.

m2ts? do you mean mpls?

Post by **mike admin** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:47 am

trondmm wrote:
mike admin wrote:Please send CLPI/M2TS files from this disc, per instructions at http://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8/catid/6 . Thank you.
m2ts? do you mean mpls?

Yes, of course I've meant MPLS, sorry for confusion.

Knocks · Post by **Knocks** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:00 pm

Did you guys figure out what the problem was? I'm having the exact same issue with the Tom and Jerry Blu-Ray.

Ripman · Post by **Ripman** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:02 pm

Check this thread I did over on HB regarding the same topic and BD title.

https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31524

Basically, if you watch the Looney Tunes BD, there are options next to each short's title that affect play (e.g., commentary, iso score, etc.). As best I can tell, each short is on the BD multiple times. Here is an example:

Ralph Phillips -- Boyhood Daze (1957) {7:24 // 175.mpls // title 32 || iso 225.mpls // iso title 58}

The main feature is in 175, and the iso score is in 225. If you wanted it all together, encode, and then extract the audio tracks from 225 and merge them into 175 encode w mkvmerge.

Woodstock · Post by **Woodstock** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:19 pm

The problem is the mastering of the disk is done to confuse people who rip it...

Mike did come up with a solution that flagged the "primary" track more often than not, but disks produced in 2014 broke that.

Knocks · Post by **Knocks** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:13 pm

Ripman: that doesn't seem to be an issue in Tom & Jerry. There are no options when selecting that could affect playback in that collection.

I ended up removing the duplicate tracks. It was a bit of a pain to do it for all 37 cartoons, but I got through it.

Ripman · Post by **Ripman** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:40 pm

It was easier for me to do everything in MakeMKV first before HB processing. Here is how the shorts and audio tracks map for BD1 and BD2. The mapping is likely valid for those that have "eng" as the default. Interestingly, MakeMKV puts all of the audio tracks (and then some) into each respective mkv; HB generated multiple mkv's with the same video stream but different audio tracks.

Note: d=commentary; i=iso score; iv=iso vocals; ix=iso score + FX.

Code: Select all

BD01 01 Bugs and Elmer -- Hare Tonic (1945) [Jones]                                                   {8:20 // 094.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD01 02 Bugs Bunny -- Baseball Bugs (1946) [Freleng] (d)                                              {7:36 // 095.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 03 Bugs and Sam -- Buccaneer Bunny (1948) [Freleng] (d)                                          {7:30 // 096.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 04 Bugs and Elmer -- The Old Grey Hare (1944) [Clampett] (d)                                     {7:38 // 097.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 05 Bugs Bunny -- Rabbit Hood (1949) [Jones] (d)                                                  {7:57 // 099.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 06 Bugs Bunny -- 8 Ball Bunny (1950) [Jones] (d)                                                 {7:09 // 100.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 07 Bugs and Elmer -- The Rabbit of Seville (1950) [Jones] (d)                                    {7:31 // 101.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 08 Bugs and Elmer -- What's Opera, Doc (1957) [Jones] (d,i,iv)                                   {6:54 // 102.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #5 (d), #8 (i), #11 (iv)
BD01 09 Daffy Duck -- The Great Piggy Bank Robbery (1946) [Clampett] (d)                              {7:36 // 103.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 10 Daffy and Elmer -- A Pest in the House (1947) [Jones] (d)                                     {7:51 // 104.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 11 Daffy, Porky and Sylvester -- The Scarlet Pumpernickel (1950) [Jones] (d,i)                   {7:06 // 105.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #5 (i)
BD01 12 Bugs and Daffy -- Duck Amuck (1953) [Jones] (d,i)                                             {6:59 // 106.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #5 (i)
BD01 13 Daffy and Porky -- Robin Hood Daffy (1958) [Jones] (d,i)                                      {6:39 // 107.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #5 (i)
BD01 14 Daffy and Porky -- Baby Bottleneck (1946) [Clampett] (d)                                      {7:04 // 098.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 15 Porky and Sylvester -- Kitty Kornered (1946) [Clampett] (d)                                   {7:08 // 108.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 16 Porky and Sylvester -- Scaredy Cat (1948) [Jones] (d)                                         {7:25 // 109.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 17 Porky Pig -- Porky Chops (1949) [Davis]                                                       {6:59 // 110.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD01 18 Porky Pig -- Old Glory (1939) [Jones] (d)                                                     {9:05 // 111.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 19 Tweety Bird -- A Tale of Two Kitties (1942) [Clampett] (d)                                    {6:40 // 112.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 20 Sylvester and Tweety -- Tweetie Pie (1947) [Freleng] (d)                                      {7:04 // 113.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 21 Wile E. Coyote and The Road Runner -- Fast and Furry-ous (1949) [Jones] (d)                   {7:08 // 114.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 22 Wile E. Coyote and The Road Runner -- Beep, Beep (1952) [Jones] (d)                           {6:49 // 115.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 23 Foghorn Leghorn -- Lovelorn Leghorn (1951) [McKimson]                                         {7:20 // 116.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD01 24 Pepé Le Pew -- For Scent-imental Reasons (1949) [Jones] (d)                                   {6:57 // 117.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD01 25 Sylvester and Speedy -- Speedy Gonzales (1955) [Freleng] (d,i)                                {6:44 // 118.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #5 (i)
BD01 26 Looney Tunes Documentary -- The Making of “What's Opera, Doc” (2004)                          {9:32 // 119.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD01 27 Looney Tunes Documentary -- The Music of Raymond Scott (2006)                                 {6:45 // 120.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD01 28 Looney Tunes Documentary -- Putty Problems and Canary Rows (2003)                             {5:36 // 122.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD01 29 Looney Tunes Documentary -- On the Scent of Pepé Le Pew (2005)                                {7:25 // 123.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)


BD02 01 Michigan J. Frog -- One Froggy Evening (1955) [Jones] (d,i)                                   {6:53 // 063.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (i)
BD02 02 WB -- Three Little Bops (1957) [Freleng] (d,i,iv)                                             {6:44 // 091.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (i), #6 (iv)
BD02 03 WB -- I Love to Singa (1936) [Avery] (d)                                                      {8:15 // 092.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD02 04 WB -- Katnip Kollege (1938) [Howard, Daon]                                                    {7:26 // 093.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 05 WB -- The Dover Boys (1942) [Jones] (d)                                                       {8:58 // 094.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD02 06 WB -- Chow Hound (1951) [Jones] (d)                                                           {6:56 // 095.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD02 07 Bugs and Marvin -- Haredevil Hare (1948) [Jones] (d)                                          {7:44 // 096.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD02 08 Bugs and Marvin -- The Hasty Hare (1952) [Jones]                                              {7:34 // 097.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 09 Daffy, Porky and Marvin -- Duck Dodgers in the 24½th Century (1953) [Jones] (d)               {7:05 // 098.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD02 10 Bugs and Marvin -- Hare-Way to the Stars (1958) [Jones] (i)                                   {7:00 // 099.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (i)
BD02 11 Bugs and Marvin -- Mad as a Mars Hare (1963) [Jones]                                          {6:47 // 100.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 12 Bugs and Taz -- Devil May Hare (1954) [McKimson] (d)                                          {6:55 // 101.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d)
BD02 13 Bugs and Taz -- Bedevilled Rabbit (1957) [McKimson]                                           {6:49 // 102.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 14 Daffy and Taz -- Ducking the Devil (1957) [McKimson] (i)                                      {6:40 // 103.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (i)
BD02 15 Bugs and Taz -- Bill of Hare (1962) [McKimson]                                                {6:28 // 104.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 16 Bugs and Taz -- Dr. Devil and Mr. Hare (1964) [McKimson]                                      {6:36 // 105.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 17 Bugs and Witch Hazel -- Bewitched Bunny (1954) [Jones] (d,ix)                                 {7:00 // 106.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (ix)
BD02 18 Bugs and Witch Hazel -- Broom-Stick Bunny (1956) [Jones] (d,ix)                               {7:10 // 107.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (ix)
BD02 19 Bugs and Witch Hazel -- A Witch's Tangled Hare (1959) [Levitow] (i)                           {6:24 // 108.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (i)
BD02 20 Daffy, Speedy and Witch Hazel -- A-Haunting We Will Go (1966) [McKimson]                      {6:21 // 109.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 21 Marc Antony and Pussyfoot -- Feed the Kitty (1952) [Jones] (d,i)                              {7:23 // 110.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (i)
BD02 22 Marc Antony and Pussyfoot -- Kiss Me Cat (1953) [Jones]                                       {7:08 // 111.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 23 Marc Antony and Pussyfoot -- Feline Frame-Up (1954) [Jones] (ix)                              {6:30 // 112.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (ix)
BD02 24 Ralph Phillips -- From A to Z-Z-Z-Z (1954) [Jones] (d)                                        {7:09 // 113.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (d)
BD02 25 Ralph Phillips -- Boyhood Daze (1957) [Jones] (d,i)                                           {7:24 // 114.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main), #2 (d), #4 (i)
BD02 26 Looney Tunes Documentary -- A Look at “One Froggy Evening” (2004)                             {7:09 // 086.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 27 Looney Tunes Documentary -- Wacky Warner One-Shots (2007)                                     {9:14 // 136.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)
BD02 28 Looney Tunes Documentary -- The Ralph Phillips Story - Living the American Daydream (2011)    {6:55 // 139.m2ts} --- Audio tracks: #1 (main)

www.makemkv.com

Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays

Re: Lots of duplicate tracks on new Blu-rays