Newbie confused about forced subtitles

[mdubin]

Hi,

I just purchased an external BluRay/DVD/CD drive and am now using the registered version of MakeMKV.

When I first ripped the BluRay Movie Spectre, I kept both the English Subtitles and the English Forced Only boxes checked but only one Subtitle track was created and it contained all subtitles whether forced or not. On my OPPO BDP-103 with Subtitles Off, the burned-in subtitles did not display at the scene near the beginning of the movie where some men are speaking in spanish. So I re-ripped the movie but this time only had the forced subtitle box checked. This time I got the forced subtitles to display correctly but on the OPPO I had to select Subtitles On.

Playing the actual BluRay in my OPPO with subtitles off, I did get the forced subtitles at the spot where I expected them to be.

What I would like to know is how I can get two subtitle tracks to be created, one with forced only and the other with everything?

I hope someone can enlighten me.

Thank You.

mdubin

[Woodstock]

One thing to remember about "forced" subtitles - they don't exist most of the time.

If a title has "forced subtitles", they will be in a separate track, not intermixed with regular subtitles. Your example with two tracks is just that - one is all subtitles, the other is just the forced subtitles. "Forced subtitles" can be intermixed, but few titles do so (known to do so: Avatar).

Often, the forced track is the "default" track, but it is not necessarily placed where players expect that track to be. When you tell MakeMKV to "highlight first track as default", it <i>may</i> be correct... or it may be wrong. MakeMKV doesn't tray to make that determination.

Best way I've found is to simply rip everything, and process the file afterward to make the proper tracks. It's fast than trying to rip them multiple times to "get it right". mkvtoolnix is your friend for this. Handbrake can do much of this, but properly setting the forced subtitle track works best with mkvtoolnix.

[mdubin]

Thank you, Woodstock.

I did just as you suggested and ripped everything that is in English. The resulting MKV contained three subtitle tracks with the 2nd being the one with forced subtitles only. Using MKVToolnix I was able to change the subtitle order so that the 2nd sub track became the 1st. This is because my OPPO does not recognize the "default" flag for MKV.

Now I know exactly what to do from now on. Again thank you for your quick reply.

mdubin

[Woodstock]

The one comment I will make about the Oppo is that it may do like a lot of other player, rely upon TWO flags to set the "display always" track.

If you set the FORCED flag on a track, it won't work like you think it should. Setting the DEFAULT flag on a track may work as you expect. But setting both flags works for most players. I have the following set up as a batch file to do that:

Code: Select all

c:\MKVTools\MKVToolNix\mkvpropedit.exe %1 -e track:s1 --set flag-default=1 --set flag-forced=1 --edit info --set "title=%~n1"

Because it makes the first subtitle track both the default and forced, it doesn't work on its own; I have handbrake put the track I want as the first subtitle track. It's a batch file because most of what I do is anime series, where there will be 12 or more episodes to process. The "%-n1" is DOS command line speak for "first argument to batch file", so I use lines like this a lot:

Code: Select all

call z:\SetSubtitleFlags.bat "V:\Anime\dubbed\B\Bottom-Tier Character Tomozaki\Bottom-Tier Character Tomozaki HD01.mkv"

(Quote character placement gets sticky when dealing with space characters.)

[mdubin]

Thanks for the info. When playing MKV, The OPPO selects the 1st subtitle track as the default track regardless of any flags. First determining the forced subtitle track via VLC and then making it the 1st sub track via MKVToolnix is the solution and it worked perfectly. I love MakeMKV. I was sold on it over a year ago when it was able to perfectly rip a particular DVD to MKV.where DVDFab kept failing.

[Chetwood]

Using MKVToolnix I was able to change the subtitle order so that the 2nd sub track became the 1st. This is because my OPPO does not recognize the "default" flag for MKV.

I don't own an Oppo but you could try MKVToolnix's header editor to flag the second track as forced and default. Usually that's enough for players to play them back without remuxing the tracks.

[maretedkatiegrace]

makemkv is still very weak. All the info is on the bluray disc, which sub track file is the forced english subs and thus if your intended flag called forced. makemkv should be adding the forced fkag of Y automatically to forced subs. Oppo by the way is defective, if it cant recognize the firced fkag of “Y” fir the forced subs its not reading data correctly. Putting the forced dub track as the first and then leaving all subs on to play videos on Oppo is not a solution, it is a gerry rig to make custom versions of movie files play so you see the firced subs ok.