Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[sw5163]

wow, ok no there's no such issue on my setup (nvidia). Blacks are actually better than in HDR10 when I put them side by side.

I just tested with a 4060 laptop, DV still has raised black. The HDR10 playback looks similar to yours, but also has a very slight raised black. I previously considered it's decoder related because the top and bottom bars were pure black when playing 3840x1600 content. So strange that DV is much worse on my setup.

this is on the Samsung G9

May I ask do you have Game Mode on or off on that monitor?
Also, could you please tell me your GPU model and driver version?
Do you use the 1$ "HEVC Video Extensions" in MSFT store or do you use the free "HEVC Video Extensions from Device Manufacturer"?
I want to restore all devices and copy exactly the same setting you're using to see what will happen. Thanks!

[RESET_9999]

I just tested

Yes, you're right. I couldn't see it on my Samsung monitor because it's in a bright room but on the C2 I can see the slightly raised blacks.
The problem seem to be the Microsoft HEVC extension because it's a lot worse with HDR10 but if you force ffmpeg for the decoding, it's fine.


EDIT: wait that's not it. I couldn't understand how I could have missed the raised black on my Samsung.
So I played with the settings (game mode). Played some HDR10 and DV on Movies&tv / energy player and somehow whatever I did raise the black.
Rebooted my PC, and now I no longer see the raised black... Trying to figure out what's causing the issue

ps I use the 1$ extension and not the free one. Game mode off. driver 546.01 rtx3070

[sw5163]

Yes, you're right. I couldn't see it on my Samsung monitor because it's in a bright room but on the C2 I can see the slightly raised blacks.

QD-OLED will lit up by ambient light, I tend to use it in a dark room. G9 is really wide...

The problem seem to be the Microsoft HEVC extension because it's a lot worse with HDR10 but if you force ffmpeg for the decoding, it's fine.

Strangely for me, DV is worse than HDR10. Maybe because LG supports DV and Samsung does not? I read somewhere DV can be either TV-LED, or Player-LED, or map to HDR10/SDR by player and send HDR10/SDR signal, I'm guessing on Samsung it's the third one?
HDR10 6400ISO 32 seconds exposure (no HDR calibration configuration file):

Rebooted my PC, and now I no longer see the raised black... Trying to figure out what's causing the issue

Reboot doesn't change anything on my end. Since I can get most of other players to play pure black, the issue is still highly likely MSFT's fault.

[RESET_9999]

idk I can't replicate what I did ... This morning when I played with the settings and I broke something. Rebooting my PC fixed it. Before rebooting, I could clearly see a difference between the black in the pattern itself and the black border from the energy player window even in the bright room but now I no longer see a difference and it look better than HDR10/MPC like yesterday.
HDR10 blacks with the Microsoft hevc extension are not right, that's for sure.

One thing about LLDV though. If the min_pq target is not 0, then it is raised. I can replicate with any edid that is not set to 0. My C2 min_pq edid value is not 0. My Samsung G9 is set to 0:

Code: Select all

  Vendor-Specific Data Block (AMD), OUI 00-00-1A:
    Version: 2.7
    Minimum Refresh Rate: 48 Hz
    Maximum Refresh Rate: 240 Hz
    Flags 1.x: 0x00
    Flags 2.x: 0x04
    Maximum luminance: 96 (400.000 cd/m^2)
    Minimum luminance: 1 (0.000 cd/m^2)
    Maximum luminance (without local dimming): 74 (248.372 cd/m^2)
    Minimum luminance (without local dimming): 2 (0.000 cd/m^2)
  HDR Static Metadata Data Block:
    Electro optical transfer functions:
      Traditional gamma - SDR luminance range
      SMPTE ST2084
    Supported static metadata descriptors:
      Static metadata type 1
    Desired content max luminance: 96 (400.000 cd/m^2)
    Desired content max frame-average luminance: 74 (248.372 cd/m^2)
    Desired content min luminance: 0 (0.000 cd/m^2)
  YCbCr 4:2:0 Capability Map Data Block:
    VIC  97:  3840x2160   60.000000 Hz  16:9    135.000 kHz    594.000000 MHz
    VIC  96:  3840x2160   50.000000 Hz  16:9    112.500 kHz    594.000000 MHz
  Vendor-Specific Video Data Block (HDR10+), OUI 90-84-8B:
    Application Version: 1
    Full Frame Peak Luminance Index: 2
    Peak Luminance Index: 3

[RESET_9999]

Ok I was able to break my Windows black level again and I know what I did to break it.
If I launch the energy player into my 2nd monitor (vizio tv edid not 0), then blacks are raised even if I play the same file again on my first monitor (Samsung). If I reboot and launch the energy player into the Samsung display, then blacks are blacks because of my G9 edid.

Vizio TV edid:

Code: Select all

  Vendor-Specific Data Block (HDMI Forum), OUI C4-5D-D8:
    Version: 1
    Maximum TMDS Character Rate: 600 MHz
    SCDC Present
    Supports 12-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
    Supports 10-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
  Vendor-Specific Video Data Block (Dolby), OUI 00-D0-46:
    Version: 0 (26 bytes)
    Supports 2160p60
    DM Version: 2.8
    Target Min PQ: 124 (0.02015421 cd/m^2)
    Target Max PQ: 2908 (681 cd/m^2)
    Rx, Ry: 0.67651367, 0.30566406
    Gx, Gy: 0.25732422, 0.65771484
    Bx, By: 0.15234375, 0.04956055
    Wx, Wy: 0.31274414, 0.32910156

[sw5163]

idk I can't replicate what I did ...

HDR10 in that photo looks way off, I came across once when I dragged Movies & TV app from laptop SDR display to external HDR display while it was playing. But it's not the same this time, on my end the raised black level is unlikely to be perceived if not in a really dark room.

[RESET_9999]

as I said, in LLDV player led if your edid min target is not 0, you'll get raised blacks. I replicated on my C2 too, if I use the default c2 edid its raised, if I use a custom edid with min target set to 0 and reboot, then black is black. My C2 is in a room with black velvet on floor ceiling and walls. No windows, no lights.

[sw5163]

as I said, in LLDV player led if your edid min target is not 0, you'll get raised blacks. I replicated on my C2 too, if I use the default c2 edid its raised, if I use a custom edid with min target set to 0 and reboot, then black is black. My C2 is in a room with black velvet on floor ceiling and walls. No windows, no lights.

I have 2 questions, why LG provide "target min pq" above 0 EDID on OLED TV? And does that mean players that are able to play pure black on this EDID, are not following the "target min pq" correctly? Sorry if these have alread been asked.

With hdmi devices like HDfury vertex or raspberry pi + Pgen.
There might be other ways I'm not aware of but I know that there is some cheap HDMI splitter that can let you upload any edid(I have one for any brightness).

Any chance I can check and switch my EDID by only using a PC?

[RESET_9999]

I dont know but all LG OLED TVs have raised black in DV, even in TV-LED.
And all the players I tested LLDV had raised black without a 0 min pq edid

[dapope]

I dont know but all LG OLED TVs have raised black in DV, even in TV-LED.
And all the players I tested LLDV had raised black without a 0 min pq edid

Have you ever tested a CX? I know it had an obvious problem with raised blacks in DV, but it was patched sometime in the year after launch. I own one and definitely noticed the improvement.

[RESET_9999]

I doubt it. Was raised on my C8, and it's still raised on my C2.
C8 was worse though and the white balance trick didn't work on my end.

[ans40]

Similar to how it's important to sync web DV frames to match a bluray BL, are there tools to do the same thing to build an HDR10+ hybrid? I don't see any mention of it in hdr10plus_tool.

[speeddemon]

I doubt it. Was raised on my C8, and it's still raised on my C2.
C8 was worse though and the white balance trick didn't work on my end.

How are you defining raised blacks?
I've had to use a 10x jeweler's loupe to see the first couple steps immediately above black (on a C9 and A95K - I'm not as critical of my C8 or C2 because of how I use them)... are you using a high-end colorimeter to measure certain stimulus levels?

[sw5163]

Hi RESET, I still notice raised black level when using Microsoft Hardware Video Decoder in the Energy player.

I think I find out what's going on here. My theory is Win11 expects us to play everything under HGiG mode, gaming, streaming, playing local files. It wants us to disable tone mapping on display and never touch it again, then Win11 will provide tone mapping based on the EDID luminance. Win11 wants this as the case for Movies & TV player and other HDR games. Dolby Vision Extensions provides another tone mapping algorithm but MSFT still expects us to use it under HGiG on non-dv capable display (like Samsung).
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issue ... 1110110976

There is also the more general problem that OSes can't blindly pass these calls through in general, because multiple applications could be running at the same time with different requirements (e.g. standard SDR apps vs a HDR video player) and the OS has to do its best to keep everyone happy. For example I noticed that with VLC and madVR, in general the metadata is only transmitted if the player is full screen. Which can lead to other potential problems e.g. the OS/driver not treating some app as full screen even though it is, and dropping its HDR metadata.

I didn't think the black level problem was related to EDID min luminance because I use the Windows HDR Calibration app and set the black level to left most and still seeing the raised black level. However, I was wrong. Current build 1.0.152.0 of that app has a bug that even when slide black bar to 0.0000, the configuration file it generates would still have 0.01 EDID min luminance, causing raised black. I verified it using DisplayHDR Test app.

Then I checked the default EDID on Samsung S95Z by connecting it to my PC and use CRU, S95Z is a Chinese variants of S95C. Strangely it reports only 4 bytes in the HDR Static Metadata session, without Max/Min luminance. (I don't know if there's better way to check this). I verified it again using DisplayHDR Test app, which tells me the Max luminance of 1499nits and Min luminance of 0.01nits were OS-provided defaults, not provided by display. Probably LG is the same case.

Therefore, I changed the Max luminance to 1350nits and Min luminance to 0nits in CRU. And now it has perfect black in Movies & TV app, both in HDR10 content and DV content. This could also be the reason people reporting Movies & TV was inaccurate, because double tone mapping by Microsoft Hardware Video Decoder and TV.

If I'm right, it looks like if I want to play video correctly in Movies & TV, I need to either set EDID to 10000nits and let my TV to do the tone mapping. Or disable tone mapping on TV and set EDID to 0-1350nits and let windows do the tone mapping. Since Dolby Vision Extensions is unlikely to work in the former circumstance and I will be also gaming on that TV, I think I'm going to stick to latter.

[RESET_9999]

I've had to use a 10x jeweler's loupe to see the first couple steps immediately above black (on a C9 and A95K - I'm not as critical of my C8 or C2 because of how I use them)... are you using a high-end colorimeter to measure certain stimulus levels?

seeing steps? I'm not talking about black crush issues and AFAIK, there's only a black crush problem with HDMI source when the RPU mastering display is 10k nits(Shield is fine if I remember correctly).

How are you defining raised blacks?

You can use this pure black test file (no flashing bars), there's a slight glow in DV. There's no need to measure anything, it is quite obvious and many people reported it, it's very well known.
You have to check in complete darkness though. And let your eyes adapt a couple minutes to the dark.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EoqK5- ... drive_link

I think I find out what's going on here.

Yep, LLDV is useless without a custom or original edid with min target 0 and I bet its the same reason why all LG TVs has raised black since their internal config file is not 0.