NEW INFO POSTED BELOW
Somewhat briefly:
- Using Jellyfin player on LG TV with a Vizio Atmos soundbar.
- Atmos MKV's demo's play perfectly ("dolby-core-universe-lossless", "dolby-audiosphere-lossless", "dolby-atmos-test-tones-5.1.2", and more).
- Playing these MKV demo's, TV displays "Dolby ATMOS" with soundbar off, "Dolby ATMOS via soundbar" when soundbar is on. Soundbar correctly signals ATMOS content, matching TV.
- Movies ripped to MKV ("1917", "Maverick", "Fall") do not have the right metadata for the TV or soundbar to detect.
- Jellyfin reports "TrueHD" and 8 audio channels.
- As a test, I ripped "1917" with only the "TrueHD" audio track selected. No sound from TV or soundbar.
- "1917" (all Atmos movies for that matter) shows "Atmos" when the physical Blu-ray is played via my PS5 through the same soundbar to the same TV.
Jellyfin plays my Atmos demo's fine, so what's up with my ripped copies?
No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
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NewbieDave
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:08 pm
No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
Last edited by NewbieDave on Mon Jan 08, 2024 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
MediaInfo can show you a lot of details about your .mkv files. It could be helpful to compare the files that do trigger atmos to those that don't.
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
The random dolby-audiosphere-lossless demo file I found on the internet has two audio tracks in it. One is TrueHD with Atmos the other is a E-AC-3 with Atmos. Which track was your setup playing?
It is my understanding that E-AC-3 with Atmos is more commonly supported than TrueHD with Atmos.
It is my understanding that E-AC-3 with Atmos is more commonly supported than TrueHD with Atmos.
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NewbieDave
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:08 pm
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
While clearly a wonderful tool, I wish I understood what it was telling me
Here is what I got back:
1917
Code: Select all
General
Unique ID : 66961475598152715881192229847042403745 (0x32604FA415AE9428D568779B2434ADA1)
Complete name : C:\MKV Temp\1917 (2019).mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 30.8 GiB
Duration : 1 h 58 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 37.1 Mb/s
Frame rate : 23.976 FPS
Movie name : 1917 (2019)
Encoded date : 2024-01-03 18:20:57 UTC
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.17.5 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.17.5 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)
Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 4113 (0x1011)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 33.2 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 37.2 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.669
Time code of first frame : 01:00:00:00
Stream size : 27.6 GiB (90%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray
Audio
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID : A_TRUEHD
Duration : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 3 810 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 7 158 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 3.17 GiB (10%)
Title : TrueHD Atmos
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray
Number of dynamic objects : 11
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 01
00:04:59.424 : en:Chapter 02
00:08:19.373 : en:Chapter 03
00:13:26.639 : en:Chapter 04
00:16:38.789 : en:Chapter 05
00:23:32.494 : en:Chapter 06
00:30:28.660 : en:Chapter 07
00:35:34.549 : en:Chapter 08
00:42:25.376 : en:Chapter 09
00:51:34.091 : en:Chapter 10
00:56:36.309 : en:Chapter 11
01:02:29.078 : en:Chapter 12
01:06:33.572 : en:Chapter 13
01:12:04.320 : en:Chapter 14
01:19:45.197 : en:Chapter 15
01:28:47.822 : en:Chapter 16
01:33:43.451 : en:Chapter 17
01:38:11.594 : en:Chapter 18
01:41:43.680 : en:Chapter 19
01:49:46.580 : en:Chapter 20
Code: Select all
General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Complete name : C:\MKV Temp\dolby-audiosphere-lossless-(www.demolandia.net).m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 142 MiB
Duration : 1 min 1 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 19.5 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mb/s
Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 1 min 1 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 16.8 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 40.0 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 24.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.338
Stream size : 123 MiB (86%)
Audio #1
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MLP FBA AC-3 16-ch
Format/Info : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Muxing mode : Stream extension
Codec ID : 131
Duration : 1 min 1 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 7 800 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 4.66 MiB (3%)
Service kind : Complete Main
Number of dynamic objects : 15
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
Audio #2
ID : 4353 (0x1101)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : E-AC-3 JOC
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3 with Joint Object Coding
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos
Format profile : Blu-ray Disc
Muxing mode : Stream extension
Codec ID : 132
Duration : 1 min 1 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 280 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 9.32 MiB (7%)
Service kind : Complete Main
Complexity index : 16
Number of dynamic objects : 15
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
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NewbieDave
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:08 pm
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
I intentionally didn't mention the website I downloaded those video's from to avoid breaking any forum rules. Regardless, your tip is excellent, but regrettably left me more confused about what the heck I have going on.dcoke22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:57 pmThe random dolby-audiosphere-lossless demo file I found on the internet has two audio tracks in it. One is TrueHD with Atmos the other is a E-AC-3 with Atmos. Which track was your setup playing?
It is my understanding that E-AC-3 with Atmos is more commonly supported than TrueHD with Atmos.
With audio track 1 selected for "dolby-audiosphere-lossless", Atmos is detected, and the client shows the following limited detail:
- TrueHD
- 8 channels
- 48 khz
- AC-3
- 6 channels (not 8
) - 48 khz
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
Dolby Atmos is extended metadata about an audio stream. That description is an ambitious simplification, but thinking about Atmos as 'extra' data about audio is useful.
In Ye Olden Times, we had Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound (AC-3). It is a lossy codec that let us have 5 surround sound channels and a sub channel and is limited to a total bit rate of 640 kbps. Eventually, Dolby made something called Dobly Digital Plus or E-AC-3. It is still a lossy codec, but it supports up to 15 channels and a maximum bitrate of 6144 kbps. Finally, Dolby made Dolby TrueHD. TrueHD is a lossless codec with a maximum bitrate of 18 Mbit/s.
Dolby Atmos data can be encoded with either Dolby Digital Plus (aka E-AC-3) or TrueHD. Modern blu-rays and UHDs with Dolby audio often use Dolby TrueHD with Atmos. Most streaming platforms that advertise Atmos are using Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos. On blu-rays and UHDs, there's plenty of space for the large TrueHD files. On streaming, every byte counts, so the lower bitrate E-AC-3 is often used.
The typical setup at home is a Plex server (or whatever) in a closet with a streaming box (aka a client) running the Plex app plugged into the TV. The limitations of the client come into play. For instance, my AppleTV 4K supports Dolby Atmos, but only in an E-AC-3 container. The AppleTV doesn't know what to do with TrueHD and can't decode it and doesn't have a pass-through feature. This is an Apple chosen software limitation of the AppleTV. I presume there's extra licensing costs for Apple to support TrueHD and since the streaming platforms are only using E-AC-3, that's all they need it to do. Other streaming boxes have other limitations. I have know idea what the limitations are of the Jellyfin player running on an LG TV (I wouldn't be surprised if the limitations change based on the model year of your TV the video file container used [.mkv vs .m2ts vs .mp4, etc]).
There's something different about the TrueHD track in your demo file as compared to your test movie, 1917.
1917 says this: Format : MLP FBA 16-ch
while your demo file says: Format : MLP FBA AC-3 16-ch
Unfortunately, I don't know enough to know what the difference is or why the demo has AC-3 in the format string.
In Ye Olden Times, we had Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound (AC-3). It is a lossy codec that let us have 5 surround sound channels and a sub channel and is limited to a total bit rate of 640 kbps. Eventually, Dolby made something called Dobly Digital Plus or E-AC-3. It is still a lossy codec, but it supports up to 15 channels and a maximum bitrate of 6144 kbps. Finally, Dolby made Dolby TrueHD. TrueHD is a lossless codec with a maximum bitrate of 18 Mbit/s.
Dolby Atmos data can be encoded with either Dolby Digital Plus (aka E-AC-3) or TrueHD. Modern blu-rays and UHDs with Dolby audio often use Dolby TrueHD with Atmos. Most streaming platforms that advertise Atmos are using Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos. On blu-rays and UHDs, there's plenty of space for the large TrueHD files. On streaming, every byte counts, so the lower bitrate E-AC-3 is often used.
The typical setup at home is a Plex server (or whatever) in a closet with a streaming box (aka a client) running the Plex app plugged into the TV. The limitations of the client come into play. For instance, my AppleTV 4K supports Dolby Atmos, but only in an E-AC-3 container. The AppleTV doesn't know what to do with TrueHD and can't decode it and doesn't have a pass-through feature. This is an Apple chosen software limitation of the AppleTV. I presume there's extra licensing costs for Apple to support TrueHD and since the streaming platforms are only using E-AC-3, that's all they need it to do. Other streaming boxes have other limitations. I have know idea what the limitations are of the Jellyfin player running on an LG TV (I wouldn't be surprised if the limitations change based on the model year of your TV the video file container used [.mkv vs .m2ts vs .mp4, etc]).
There's something different about the TrueHD track in your demo file as compared to your test movie, 1917.
1917 says this: Format : MLP FBA 16-ch
while your demo file says: Format : MLP FBA AC-3 16-ch
Unfortunately, I don't know enough to know what the difference is or why the demo has AC-3 in the format string.
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NewbieDave
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:08 pm
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
NEW INFO
In an effort to eliminate Jellyfin server transcoding (though it says it's playing direct) and the WebOS player, I copied all of the relevant files to an SSD drive, plugged them into my LG TV's USB port, and...
Same results. 1917 won't play Atmos (no sound at all) but all of my Atmos demo's play fine.
How do I prove for myself that MakeMKV isn't at fault for stripping out the Atmos metadata?
In an effort to eliminate Jellyfin server transcoding (though it says it's playing direct) and the WebOS player, I copied all of the relevant files to an SSD drive, plugged them into my LG TV's USB port, and...
Same results. 1917 won't play Atmos (no sound at all) but all of my Atmos demo's play fine.
How do I prove for myself that MakeMKV isn't at fault for stripping out the Atmos metadata?
Re: No Atmos metadata (from yet another newbie)
That 1917 doesn't have any sound at all indicates to me that something else beyond just Atmos is wrong. Atmos data is just additional data on top of the underlying audio stream, which is a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 channel lossless track in the movie 1917.NewbieDave wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 8:51 pmSame results. 1917 won't play Atmos (no sound at all) but all of my Atmos demo's play fine.
User RESET_9999 has done a bunch of testing of various players and their suitability for Dolby Vision and collected the results in a Google Spreadsheet. You can find more details in the giant and inaccurately named thread Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.
Lots of those results suggest various players won't play lossless tracks or won't play them without the lossy core (which, for TrueHD is a regular AC-3 track).