Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[hugard]

Hey @RESET_9999 , Firstly thanks for that awesome spreadsheet of yours. It has helped me understand a lot about how DV works. I have a question. For the UHD BD movies where the brightness/details get expanded via the FEL layer, would those movies look dimmer or have slightly less detail even if I play them in just HDR10? Or is this a problem only when I try to play them in DV with a device that can't decode FEL? I would assume that they would look dimmer or have slightly less detail even if I play them in just HDR10. If so, why do studios do this? They're essentially downgrading the HDR10 output and fixing things in the DV output through the FEL. Ideally the HDR10 version should be the best it can possibly be and DV should just be an improvement over it, right?

[RESET_9999]

When I do this I find this by the final frame the values are: MaxCLL: 3870.62 and MaxFALL: 84.1747 this seems quite different than what dovi_tool tells me and I did not find a lot of discussion on this method and not sure if it is even relevant to my use case.
One more bonus question if anyone has any input. On a private tracker in a discussion someone mentioned AviSynth with MapNLQ plugin is preferred to DoViBaker, has anyone here tested this or have any more info on it and what tangible benefits it has?

Yes, I would use the values from the dovi Level 1 (MaxCllFind).
I tried MapNLQ and didn't notice any benefits. The speed was exactly the same as the dovi_baker (+prefetch)

Hey @RESET_9999 , Firstly thanks for that awesome spreadsheet of yours. It has helped me understand a lot about how DV works. I have a question. For the UHD BD movies where the brightness/details get expanded via the FEL layer, would those movies look dimmer or have slightly less detail even if I play them in just HDR10? Or is this a problem only when I try to play them in DV with a device that can't decode FEL? I would assume that they would look dimmer or have slightly less detail even if I play them in just HDR10. If so, why do studios do this? They're essentially downgrading the HDR10 output and fixing things in the DV output through the FEL. Ideally the HDR10 version should be the best it can possibly be and DV should just be an improvement over it, right?

It's only a problem when you try to play those FEL movies in DV on a device that can't process the EL. HDR10 will be as intended.

why do studios do this?

viewtopic.php?p=137560#p137560

[DjObama]

Hi,
Is it possible to add lossless (DTS-HD MA, TrueHD) conversions to FLAC to mp4 workflows?
If not then how can I add flac tracks to p7 DT-DL MP4s created using Dovi scripts?

[RESET_9999]

Hi,
Is it possible to add lossless (DTS-HD MA, TrueHD) conversions to FLAC to mp4 workflows?
If not then how can I add flac tracks to p7 DT-DL MP4s created using Dovi scripts?

Why Flac? You have to give me a good reason because there's already an option for LPCM.

or you can look at this very old tutorial(@yusesope) to make mp4 with flac audio:
https://mrmc.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... &start=310

[kazuma]

i see sometimes hybrid versions of movies that have no DV on the original disc. Are the publishers adding fake DV on this torrents? why is a hdr10 movie hybrid?

[speeddemon]

I haven't tested Apple/Amazon/Google devices with a capture card, but I have hooked them all up to a calibrated screen, compared, and the differences were significant. They all appeared to be doing their own tone mapping. I haven't tested this in a long time though so it's possible some/all have improved.

I also never tested from a Sony/Oppo blu-ray player.

I feel like it's an interesting scenario though for people with projectors.

With Windows 10/11 mediaplayer, even the 600nits trim is used for SDR/HDR and the 100nits trim has very little effect(at least on the test file i used).

A common misconception is the confusion between DV display management and the meaning of "SDR" in the context of display operating modes. While in the context of DV, "SDR" usually refers to a 100-nit BT.709 Gamma 2.4 target display, the latter only roughly denotes the display is using a SDR gamma. In this scenario, the DV target brightness can be just any value and is typically greater than 100 nits. The final trim used for your display depends on the target brightness and available trims in metadata and is usually interpolated values from trims for lower and higher target brightness.

You may want to find out the target brightness of your current display, I made a test pattern for a quick check.
Download: https://mega.nz/file/XEQRyC6S#PIoiGsnCx ... 3j8AbPjmSQ

Check the grayscale in the center of the screen, visually identify the point where the grayscale stops (start turning into white), and use the logarithmic scale below to determine the approximate target brightness. For example, the screenshot below means a target brightness of 500-nit.

It only works in players with DV display management support, so players like mpv that only composes base layer will not work, they will just show a full grayscale.
On Windows, you will get a target brightness of 270-nit in SDR mode and 1500-nits in HDR mode if your display doesn't provide any useful data about this through EDID.
On macOS, you should not use any reference mode with locked brightness, it will just bypass display management.
The target brightness may change with user tunable display parameters like brightness setting and DV mode, and other parameters such as ambient brightness. And it doesn't mean your display is actually operating with that brightness (although it would better be).

Since SDR displays are not going to be capable of TV-led Dolby Vision, how would they handle communicating their luminance capabilities to the player allowing player-led LLDV to interpolate L2 trims and output anything other than 100-nit? It seems to me like the safe bet would be for all players to just output the 100-nit SDR L2 trim if/when the display device interpreted as or set to SDR-only. Am I misunderstanding?

[DjObama]

Hi,
Is it possible to add lossless (DTS-HD MA, TrueHD) conversions to FLAC to mp4 workflows?
If not then how can I add flac tracks to p7 DT-DL MP4s created using Dovi scripts?

Why Flac? You have to give me a good reason because there's already an option for LPCM.

or you can look at this very old tutorial(@yusesope) to make mp4 with flac audio:
https://mrmc.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... &start=310

Flac will be much smaller in size than LPCM, so less bandwidth used when plaing. Sometimes DV UHD movies stutter (nothing major, like 1-2 times per viewing) for me when played from external HDD, I suppose with flac it would be happening less. Especially if you'd add the option to convert to 16 bit flac instead of 24 bit. I think 16 is plenty enough. Dts-hd ma converted to 16 bit flac often take 1/4th of its original size, often less than DD+ @1,5mbps. And compared to eac3 flac is still a lossless file format = piece of mind for us audio- and vision nerds

[hugard]

i see sometimes hybrid versions of movies that have no DV on the original disc. Are the publishers adding fake DV on this torrents? why is a hdr10 movie hybrid?

They are taking the DV metadata from DV WEB-DL releases and adding it to the HDR10 files ripped from the UHD BD. This should only be done when the DV WEB-DL and UHD BD are derived from the same master grade. Also, the syncing needs to be done properly. Otherwise, it can create problems. Even the biggest groups make mistakes sometimes. For this reason, I generally avoid hybrid DV releases.

[RESET_9999]

Flac will be much smaller in size than LPCM, so less bandwidth used when plaing. Sometimes DV UHD movies stutter (nothing major, like 1-2 times per viewing) for me when played from external HDD, I suppose with flac it would be happening less. Especially if you'd add the option to convert to 16 bit flac instead of 24 bit. I think 16 is plenty enough. Dts-hd ma converted to 16 bit flac often take 1/4th of its original size, often less than DD+ @1,5mbps. And compared to eac3 flac is still a lossless file format = piece of mind for us audio- and vision nerds

Which playback device do you use? I just tried on my C2 and there's no direct play for FLAC/PCM, all I got was PLEX converting to DDP7.1 which is identical to my script.

[DjObama]

Flac will be much smaller in size than LPCM, so less bandwidth used when plaing. Sometimes DV UHD movies stutter (nothing major, like 1-2 times per viewing) for me when played from external HDD, I suppose with flac it would be happening less. Especially if you'd add the option to convert to 16 bit flac instead of 24 bit. I think 16 is plenty enough. Dts-hd ma converted to 16 bit flac often take 1/4th of its original size, often less than DD+ @1,5mbps. And compared to eac3 flac is still a lossless file format = piece of mind for us audio- and vision nerds

Which playback device do you use? I just tried on my C2 and there's no direct play for FLAC/PCM, all I got was PLEX converting to DDP7.1 which is identical to my script.

LG B8. Flac works in mp4/mkv files in SDR. I don't know about DT-DL mp4s, for now I'm having troubles creating such files. Maybe you have a DV DT-DL sample with flac for testing?

[ans40]

Quick question; when generating CMv4.0 content (3-1), how does one determine what Mastering Display to use? I assuming higher isn't necessarily better?

2 options:

1- just use the static metadata from your source HDR10
2- check the brightness first with madvr. If 95% of the movie is under 1000nits, use 1000nits MDL else, 4000.

Option 2 is better because some movies have a static MDL of 4000nits but the actual brightness is under 1000nits.
A 4000nits RPU is a lot darker than a 1000nits one regardless of the content's actual brightness and in my opinion, 4000nits MDL + low nits content is wrong without L2 trim passes because if you look at the generated(or original) trims with a 4000nits analysis, they brighten/compensate a lot for the darkness a 4000 rpu brings.

https://slow.pics/c/uVX5iFOD

Hey @Reset_9999, I've hit a wall with a movie (Predators 2010) whose BL MDL is 1000nits, but measuring the BL shows most the MaxCLL over 1000 nits. I've tried fiddling with different settings (changing the DV Mastering Display and color space transforming mainly) in Resolve, but can't figure out how to generate a DV that doesn't cut off at 1000 nits. Any thoughts? https://slow.pics/c/BqRCdoHJ

[Mattl0]

I believe here is a good place to ask.

What is the highest apl scene you have seen on a hdr movie? I mean with real data.

Thanks

[Mattl0]

I just bought a Sony a95k.

I only tested this on the vimu app.

The tv can read (and be set into ) dolby vision .mkv p7 dual layer single track p7.
The same does not work with .ts files.

Is there a short clip I can try to be know if the tv read the fel layer ? And also the rpu?

Thanks.

[skull88]

Quick question; when generating CMv4.0 content (3-1), how does one determine what Mastering Display to use? I assuming higher isn't necessarily better?

2 options:

1- just use the static metadata from your source HDR10
2- check the brightness first with madvr. If 95% of the movie is under 1000nits, use 1000nits MDL else, 4000.

Option 2 is better because some movies have a static MDL of 4000nits but the actual brightness is under 1000nits.
A 4000nits RPU is a lot darker than a 1000nits one regardless of the content's actual brightness and in my opinion, 4000nits MDL + low nits content is wrong without L2 trim passes because if you look at the generated(or original) trims with a 4000nits analysis, they brighten/compensate a lot for the darkness a 4000 rpu brings.

https://slow.pics/c/uVX5iFOD

Hey @Reset_9999, I've hit a wall with a movie (Predators 2010) whose BL MDL is 1000nits, but measuring the BL shows most the MaxCLL over 1000 nits. I've tried fiddling with different settings (changing the DV Mastering Display and color space transforming mainly) in Resolve, but can't figure out how to generate a DV that doesn't cut off at 1000 nits. Any thoughts? https://slow.pics/c/BqRCdoHJ

Latest Dolby algo in Resolve with default tuning will not be identical to BL peaks, but slightly lower. Nothing wrong with your plot from what I can see.

[RESET_9999]

Hey @Reset_9999, I've hit a wall with a movie (Predators 2010) whose BL MDL is 1000nits, but measuring the BL shows most the MaxCLL over 1000 nits. I've tried fiddling with different settings (changing the DV Mastering Display and color space transforming mainly) in Resolve, but can't figure out how to generate a DV that doesn't cut off at 1000 nits. Any thoughts? https://slow.pics/c/BqRCdoHJ

use the old legacy mode if you want identical peaks to madvr measurements.. As @skull88 said, the new algo always produces lower values. it's less aggressive on the tone mapping(brighter).