Data burning software?

[hunterjwizzard]

I may be asking in the wrong place. I finally got a drive capable of burning BD XL 100gb disks. I'm not remotely interested in creating playable blu-rays(mostly becuase I do't own a blu-ray player) but am planning to use this for long-term data archiving using M-Disks.

Do I need some kind of specialized software, or will something like CDburnXP still work for this function?

Again not looking to make playable disks at all, just data storage.

[Coopervid]

If you have a LG based writer you are out of luck. These drives suck burning DL discs because they screw up at the layer break. I never used discs with more than 2 layers but if you want results that don't create issues the only way is to try the best burner family made by Pioneer. My guess is the BDR-211 would be the only viable option you have.
Can you enlighten us why you want to use discs? Hard disks are cheaper, more reliable etc.

[hunterjwizzard]

Well I have the LG WH16NS60; reviews said it burned the BD XL disks just fine(though not what software they are using). Would like to get my ducks in a row before I make a $5 coaster.

The reason for using M-disks(Millenium Disks) is for very long-term archival purposes. I have no intention of using the disks on a regular basis to access data. They will be burned, then placed in storage. Hard drives are great for regularly-accessed stuff, but I'm looking to leave these on the shelf for on the order of decades.

[Coopervid]

I wouldn't go down that path. The results with my LG BH16NS55 burners just suck. Always issues at the layer break. And different to DVD-DL you can't influence when to stop with layer 0 and switch to layer 1. This was quite helpful because the most critical area is the outer edge of the disc. So with DVD-DL if you had 8 GB of data you could burn 4GB on L0 and then switch to L1 to burn the rest. That is not the case with BDs. It is just looked at like a single layer. So for a 3 layer disc the burners burn to the max capacity of L0, switch to L1 and write the max capacity of L1 and the burn the rest to L3.

I would recommend a backup strategy on hard disks, not optical discs. Having multiple copies of the files you care about on various drives. If you are a little paranoid you should also store one of these disk in a completely different location you usually use.

[hunterjwizzard]

I've been down the hard disk backup route, been storing my data that way for 2 decades now. I have also lost large swaths of it multiple times that way. Fact is hard disks are good for ~5 years at a time, at most, even as offline storage. And yes they can and absolutely do fail just sitting on a shelf. The only way to really keep information safe is to be constantly cycling through a series of backups, that means constantly building, upgrading, and maintaining new storage systems. Not only does this get expensive after a while, its a chore.

I've thought about using one of those online systems like Carbonite or Dropbox, but A)you have to keep paying for it, and B)it only lasts as long as the company running it.

For a safe long-term(long term as in shelf-stable for multiple decades) option, you need either a tape drive(which carries its own risks) or something like M-disks. I suppose since I have very few individual files larger than 4gb, I could simply use M-Disk DVDs and avoid all the pitfalls of BR(and the difficulty of finding a working blu-ray drive in the late 2050s if the format dies).

Anyway, the tl;dr version: bitter experience has taught me hard drives are not a good solution over the course of decades.

[Coopervid]

Optical drives / discs are no better way to go. Here the hardware is the critical point. Burner strategy to burn certain discs, disc quality etc. It's not a software question. Redundant hard drives and redundant locations is the way to go. The affordable way.

[hunterjwizzard]

Are you unfamiliar with M-disks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

These were specifically invented for archival media longevity.

[Coopervid]

The German computer magazine ct tested them and doesn't recomment this method. ct 22/2020 pages 68 - 70.

[hunterjwizzard]

Ah, of course. I shall continue doing something I already know doesn't work(hard drives) on the say so of a German computer magazine. Thank you for your time.

[Coopervid]

If you don't want to listen why are you even asking? Case closed for me.

[dcoke22]

How much data are you talking about? There are pros and cons to almost any archival strategy and medium.

Personally, I use Backblaze. It is $110 for 2 years and unlimited storage. They'll back up external drives attached to your computer. If you had an 'archive drive' sitting quietly on your desk, you could have the data local and in a data center for not a lot of money. Yes, hard drives fail, but with the offsite backup, you could recover.

The other route to consider is something like Arq (https://www.arqbackup.com) to push data into something like AWS Glacier (https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/). It is fairly cheap to put data into Glacier; it is more expensive to get it out.

The common theme here is to try to find a way to offload the continuous task of dealing with data durability to folks for whom it is their job.


If you're still intent on burning discs… In the past I used Toast to burn optical discs on Macs. I'm not sure Toast even exists anymore. On Windows, I've used Nero in the past. I don't have any experience with CDburnXP.

[PrimoAngelo]

I use BH16NS55 drives crossflashed to WH16NS58 1.V5 to burn M-Disc and verify them. I have about 8 of them and only one drive has a strange behaviour.
Try to burn a (low value) Single layer BD and a double layer BD and try a transfer rate scan with Opti Drive Control.
If you have this strange RPM DROP, discard the drive and try with another one:

SINGLE LAYER BD WITH RPM DROP


DUAL LAYER BD WITH RPM DROP


The same BD scanned with another drive is fine.
If the result is perfect, you can safely burn M DISC (1-2-3 LAYERS)

DUAL LAYER PERFECT


I use IMG Burn with OPC enabled and verify after burn option enabled.

And, as you can see, with a Milleniata BD burned 30-04-2018 and scanned 11-04-2020 the result is very good and the support is the same as 2 year back without bit rot:

[dcoke22]

How are you determining that the disc burned 2 years ago is still good? Is it that the disc can still be read and reports no errors while doing so? Or is it something else?

I try to protect against bit rot for my digital pictures. I do this by keeping a hash of each picture in a text file. Periodically, I check the files against the hashes recorded. If they don't match, then the file changed. Assuming I didn't edit it, it most likely means bit rot and I should find a copy on a backup.

[PrimoAngelo]

How are you determining that the disc burned 2 years ago is still good? Is it that the disc can still be read and reports no errors while doing so? Or is it something else?

I try to protect against bit rot for my digital pictures. I do this by keeping a hash of each picture in a text file. Periodically, I check the files against the hashes recorded. If they don't match, then the file changed. Assuming I didn't edit it, it most likely means bit rot and I should find a copy on a backup.

Even if you try to normally read the disc, you still do not know how fast is degrading the support. Error Correction will do the job for you till possible. If you can not read anymore the disk, it is too late, the error correction is not enough and data are gone.
Hash is good but not enough for "prevention". You only know when is too late and you should find a backup.

I simply compare day 1 scan with day 730 and if the quality scan is the same or almost the same, no significant bit rot occurs.
Obviously day 1 scan must have good (LOW) BIS and LDC value or the starting point is not good. If the starting poit is not good, may be the disc, the burning speed or the burner with problems.

If you see from the scans a fast degrading, you can still do a backup from the degrading disc. As long as the error correction code is still usable and working and you always have the corresponding hash, you can correctly read the files.

[sr2owens]

Hi Hunter, my burner was ejecting the disc without copying, so I started using BurnAware Free.
When it was checking my files, it found some errors, but turned out to be nothing.