Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[Mattl0]

Hi !

Here I have used makemkv 1.16.4 for all my tittles. You can skip the next part and go directly to my question.

I have an Ugoos am6b+ ( only the wifi 6 chip is different vs am6b). I can use some app that use media codec to play mkv muxed with mkavemkv 1.16.4. They play fine, but I always found there was something wrong. Anyway

There native videoplayer is using differents codes etc, I believe this is the way to play dolby vision on this machine. This player does NOT play :
-stdl MKV (played ad hdr10)
-Any dualtrack (exept mkv) will play in dolby vision but only in 1080p . Must be a bug that take the wrong stream as an hint to change resolution, or maybe this is a certification issue and the machine is doing heavy downscale than upscale to 20160p , I don't know.

The native player DOES play :
stdl .ts
stdl .m2ts
Maybe stdl mp4, did not try


So, my questions,
Output file is stdl.

1- Does the output of a .mkv muxed with makemkv makemkv 1.16.4 > tsmuxer (ts or m2ts) the same as using yusesope'S beta 4 tool > tsmuxer (ts or m2ts) the same ?
- I have read somewhere that makemkv does remove nal 62-63 * but maybe this have been corrected.
- using yusesope's tool I can remove the hdr10+ metadata, does it improve something?
-using already muxed mkv instead of starting to rip from scratch would save me a lot of time, but if the quality/compatibility is better, i'll do it.


Thank you,
Sorry if the answer is in this thread , I have read a lot but this is a huge one.

[cannibalist2]

Hey guys, sorry im new to this stuff. I want to remux DV from BDMV file and I tried using TSmuxer and MakeMKV so:

1- I downloaded the BDMV file and I used TSmuxer and I chose the first two HEVC the 4k and 1080p with TrueHD audio to make it ISO file.
2- After that I used MakeMKV and I chose the DV one and it was successful then I opened Mediainfo and it shows me its Dolby Vision Profile 7.
3- I used Plex from my firestick 4k and played the movie and it gave HDR not DV.

Please help again I'm new to this.

I guess you are trying to play a movie with FEL. Firestick can not play FEL. Convert it to MEL with yusesope's tool and try to play again

[juzer7]

Hi guys. Amazing thread. After trying to read all of it I got a few questions in my head. My setup is Shield 2019 Pro + several LG OLEDs in my family (C9, BX etc).

1.) I deleted the question as you can not make Profile 8 BL+EL+RPU copy of Profile 7 BL+EL+RPU as there is no EL in Profile 8. My mistake

2.) I do also for some movies 2160p UHD Rips (re-encodes) x265 CRF 17 preset slower. I am able to watch them on 4K TVs around the globe whenever I travel and I want to play a movie as very often 20-40 Mbit connection is no problem in a modern hotele whereas 50-90 Mbit for remuxes is too much in 99% cases in public places. Now the question is. I am able to extract FEL or MEL layer and extract RPU. Usually I attach RPU layer to my 2160p re-encodes and it plays as Dolby Vision video (without EL layer) without a problem or any glitches. However I was thinking about adding EL track as well? I rather don't see a point in this as the goal to re-encode is to reduce the size and quality for lower bitrate (storage does not matter much for me) and then if I go from 60 GB to 25 GB what would be the point in increasing the size by 4-8 GB back only to get 12 bit video on something I anyway just reduced the quality already. Do you have any thoughts on this? So I rather just keep RPU only with 2160p re-encodes.

3.) How about MEL? If the EL layer is MEL. Does it make sense to add it? After reading this thread I understand MEL would not bring any value as well in my case (point 2)?

4.) One thing I don't understand. I join with dovi_tool original EL layer (for example 8 GB) with original RPU (upgraded to dvhe . Then I mux it with mkvtoolnix with the re-encoded 2160p BL layer (let's say 25 GB). Then i have a mkv file with 2 HEVC tracks (25+8 = 33 GB mkv at this point). Then I go to MakeMKV, open it and save as MKV. I receive single layer dual track profile 8 Dolby Vision file. It plays correctly. But why total size of this file is around 29 GB and not 33 GB?

5.) Last but not least. A bit crazy question. Anyone has been playing with re-encoding FEL layer? I did some tests. For "Anna" I re-encoded 8 GB FEL layer to ca 1 GB (x265 17 slower). But for "Bravehart" it went from 8 GB to 13 GB (x265 17 slower). When I remux it and create dovi profile 7 compliant mkv it plays correctly on Shield as DoVI. To be honest I'm a bit curious what in fact I have created? 12 bit re-encoded file? How is the re-encoded BL matching the re-encoded FEL? During re-encdoding for sure the original BL:FEL won't match the re-encoded BL:FEL in terms of pixel-to-pixel match.
Anyway it works, it plays well on Shield. For movies like "Anna" increasing the 25 GB 2160p re-encode with 1GB re-encoded FEL is not a big deal. But for movies like "Braveheart" I would have to add 25 BL re-encode, the 8 GB original FEL. Anyway after MKV the "Braveheart" 2160p re-encode BL+EL(original)+RPU is not 33 GB but 29 GB (so plus 4GB) which, on the other hand, is not so bad after all (+13%).
Anyway the question is - does it make much sense? To be honest I can not see the difference on my LG OLED between re-encoded BL + RPU vs re-encoded BL + re-encoded EL + RPU vs re-encoded BL + original EL + RPU. Maybe someone else is more patient in this matter and can tell the difference?

And just to let you know in case anyone wondered. Yes, you can attach DoVi to 720p HEVC HDR re-ecodes. After merging with RPU it plays as 720p Dolby Vision. The quality is actually really nice on LG OLED for 3-4 MB/s 720p DoVi files. It really looks god Yes, you can also re-encode FEL layer to 720p HEVC track. For example "Anna" FEL is reducing its size from 8 GB to 300 MB. For "Braveheart" it went down from 8 GB to 4 GB.
In the end you can mux it into 720p DoVi BL (re-encoded) + EL (re-encoded) + RPU and it also plays well
Regarding the file size. MKVtoolnix size is 5,7 GB for re-encoded BL + 4,5 GB for re-encoded EL which is 10,3 GB. However final MakeMKV Profile 7 file for 720p DoVi BL (re-encoded) + EL (re-encoded) + RPU is 7,9 GB in case anyone wondered.
So with movies like "Braveheart" it does not make sens or one would have to use more aggressive EL endcoding like CRF21/22? (then: how for example CRF21/22 EL will impact the BL+EL quliaty vs pure BL CRF17 - this might be interesting).
But with movies like "Anna" you could keep very low size files for DolbyVIsion comedies in 720p or 1080p - like for example "Spaceballs". For 5-8 GB you can have full BL+EL+RPU Dolby Vision comedy with "enough" quality for this kind of movie.

[FubbAyH]

I'm not an expert, but I'll take a crack at those:

1) I believe the only advantage of converting to profile 8 is compatibility with devices that can't handle profile 7, so if your playback device can do profile 7 then I don't think there's anything to be gained by converting.

2-3) A MEL is essentially just the RPU, so if you you've added the RPU back to your re-encode then you've already added the MEL, in effect. I'll address the FEL case in answer 5.

4) pass

5) I don't think trying to re-encode the BL and FEL separately is a valid thing to do that will produce meaningful results. Remember that the video data in a FEL is an encoding of the difference between the HDR10 BL and the original DV source. But when you've re-encoded the BL, adding back the FEL video data no longer gets you to the original DV source, it just gets you a weird mix of things. I think it's a valid simplification to think of it like an equation DV = BL + FEL. If you change BL then FEL can no longer help you calculate DV.

What would be great is if we could decode the BL and FEL together to get the 12-bit DV source, and then we could re-encode that to whatever we wanted. But the trouble is, we don't know how to do that decoding step, because it's proprietary and only Dolby-licenced UHDBD players know how to do it. Perhaps one day someone will fully reverse engineer DV profile 7, but for now I think we're stuck with not being able to do anything with a FEL except for converting it to a MEL or playing it back on licenced (or cloned) UHDBD players.

[juzer7]

In fact if anyone is curious you can download 720p versions of Braveheart:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E51NcN ... sp=sharing

- BL
- DoVi 7 BL + original EL + RPU
- DoVi 7 BL + re-encoded EL + RPU
- DoVi 8 BL + RPU

To me "DoVi 7 BL + re-encoded EL + RPU" looks really good with no artifacts. However I struggle to find differences between DoVi versions at all

[quietvoid]

Reencoding the EL makes no sense because you're losing the benefits of the original if you just do it blindly.
Also it's complicated to keep it in sync with the BL.

[staknhalo]

Also it's complicated to keep it in sync with the BL.

Yeah as I mentioned previously, I have not been able to encode a single BL and mux back in its FEL (or even convert that FEL+then encoded BL to 8 ) without there being RPU sync errors/flashes in the file, somewhere, eventually (not always right at the start nor constant). I've tried x265/ffmpeg/though Staxrip UI/Handbrake/various encode settings multiple times/different rip and mux tools and differing versions of each program/yusesope's or quietvoid's tool - there's always a RPU errors eventually in a FEL title no matter what I do with it if I first encode the BL. MEL titles with encoded BL or 8 converted from 5 RPU + encoded HDR10 BL or HDR10+ to 8 with encoded BL - no problem whatsoever on any of those titles (I think I'm at mid-50s currently for native Dovi UHD titles I've added to Plex). I know others here say they're doing it, but I somehow am just SOL apparently. So any FEL title I just mux together and leave untouched - using external forced subs works fine in Plex so I don't need to worry about burning them in (main reason for encoding, secondary to the space saving aspect) - and being I have the source PGS subs, timing/spelling is accurate and all that jazz for my external subs, no worries.

Still, sucks being defeated

[Manixx2020beyound]

Also it's complicated to keep it in sync with the BL.

Yeah as I mentioned previously, I have not been able to encode a single BL and mux back in its FEL (or even convert that FEL+then encoded BL to 8 ) without there being RPU sync errors/flashes in the file, somewhere, eventually (not always right at the start nor constant). I've tried x265/ffmpeg/though Staxrip UI/Handbrake/various encode settings multiple times/different rip and mux tools and differing versions of each program/yusesope's or quietvoid's tool - there's always a RPU errors eventually in a FEL title no matter what I do with it if I first encode the BL. MEL titles with encoded BL or 8 converted from 5 RPU + encoded HDR10 BL or HDR10+ to 8 with encoded BL - no problem whatsoever on any of those titles (I think I'm at mid-50s currently for native Dovi UHD titles I've added to Plex). I know others here say they're doing it, but I somehow am just SOL apparently. So any FEL title I just mux together and leave untouched - using external forced subs works fine in Plex so I don't need to worry about burning them in (main reason for encoding, secondary to the space saving aspect) - and being I have the source PGS subs, timing/spelling is accurate and all that jazz for my external subs, no worries.

Still, sucks being defeated

We are not defeated at all, there is a way,
I have just created a flawless copy of power rangers just for this test. FEL is 7gigs on power rangers don’t encode it.
18 gig base layer encode with FEL & RPU
You have to edit the FEL (has the nal unit) in the Rpu to reflect the hevc bl encode and that’s it.
I get no flashes no pixilation perfect alinement. Perfect profile 7 with encoded base layer
Inject the new Rpu into the FEL.
Mux with base layer in ts muxer nightly build & your done.
The hard part is getting a new Rpu.

FEL working on encoded base layer

D7FE8360-006A-4810-813A-D959EEDBEA36.jpeg (391.31 KiB) Viewed 26402 times

[staknhalo]

Also it's complicated to keep it in sync with the BL.

Yeah as I mentioned previously, I have not been able to encode a single BL and mux back in its FEL (or even convert that FEL+then encoded BL to 8 ) without there being RPU sync errors/flashes in the file, somewhere, eventually (not always right at the start nor constant). I've tried x265/ffmpeg/though Staxrip UI/Handbrake/various encode settings multiple times/different rip and mux tools and differing versions of each program/yusesope's or quietvoid's tool - there's always a RPU errors eventually in a FEL title no matter what I do with it if I first encode the BL. MEL titles with encoded BL or 8 converted from 5 RPU + encoded HDR10 BL or HDR10+ to 8 with encoded BL - no problem whatsoever on any of those titles (I think I'm at mid-50s currently for native Dovi UHD titles I've added to Plex). I know others here say they're doing it, but I somehow am just SOL apparently. So any FEL title I just mux together and leave untouched - using external forced subs works fine in Plex so I don't need to worry about burning them in (main reason for encoding, secondary to the space saving aspect) - and being I have the source PGS subs, timing/spelling is accurate and all that jazz for my external subs, no worries.

Still, sucks being defeated

We are not defeated at all, there is a way,
I have just created a flawless copy of power rangers just for this test. FEL is 7gigs on power rangers don’t encode it.
18 gig base layer encode with FEL & RPU
You have to edit the FEL (has the nal unit) in the Rpu to reflect the hevc bl encode and that’s it.
I get no flashes no pixilation perfect alinement. Perfect profile 7 with encoded base layer
Inject the new Rpu into the FEL.
Mux with base layer in ts muxer nightly build & your done.
The hard part is getting a new Rpu.

whats the hard part about the rpu just cause manual edit needed (that's fine) or only pro tools can output or something?

[samlop10]

Has anyone looked at these new players announced from Zappiti? They’re supposed to start shipping around the globe in November. This is the link to one of them:

https://www.zappiti.com/zappiti-neo-dolby-vision

They clearly mention supporting Dolby Vision both in MEL and FEL. They also mention using the ‘latest Realtek RTD1619DR’.

Is there a chance they might actually play the full FEL layer instead of just downgrading it to MEL?

I wouldn’t mind the downgrade at all if the all encodes were good in HDR10, but it seems more and more DV discs in FEL suffer from poor encodes when the FEL layer is ignored. Other than Total Recall, the latest ones to suffer from this are the Halloween 1 - 5 4K releases from Shout! They look great in Dolby Vision w/ FEL, but in HDR10 the encodes start falling apart. Other ones that suffer from this are the Studio Canal releases. They do amazing restorations of older films but the encodes always seem to trip when the DV FEL layer is ignored.

I am currently digitizing my whole blu-ray collection to a NAS and I’m trying to find a way to play DV FEL correctly to not have to compromise on the picture or audio quality. The holy grail seems to be being able to play back DV FEL correctly with all lossless audio options (TrueHD Atmos, etc.).

So at the risk of repeating myself, is there a chance these upcoming players from Zappiti might actually play the full FEL layer instead of just downgrading it to MEL?

They’re pricey, but if they can playback all video and audio formats without compromise they might be worth it.

[quietvoid]

Tested some files on the new FireTV Stick 4K Max.
Still has trouble with HDR10+ ending up with a black screen when Dolby Vision is triggered.

I couldn't get any of the FEL test files to play correctly without the device just blanking out after a couple seconds.
For some reason actual unmodified P7 FEL files work though.

It might be because with the test files, the EL is not synced properly.
Any other untouched file maybe? I tried the ones on AVS and here: viewtopic.php?p=104113#p104113

Otherwise I guess there might be a use for me to make a proper muxer..

[FubbAyH]

They clearly mention supporting Dolby Vision both in MEL and FEL. They also mention using the ‘latest Realtek RTD1619DR’.

Is there a chance they might actually play the full FEL layer instead of just downgrading it to MEL?

I won't get my hopes up. The RTD1619DR is the same chipset that is used in Zidoo's latest generation of devices where it provides support for everything DV except the video data in the FEL (it automatically downgrades to MEL). I guess it's possible that Zappiti have reverse engineered profile 7 to play the full FEL, but since that would be truly unique, I'd expect them to spell that out very explicitly in the marketing if they had done so.

[FubbAyH]

Tested some files on the new FireTV Stick 4K Max.
Still has trouble with HDR10+ ending up with a black screen when Dolby Vision is triggered.

I couldn't get any of the FEL test files to play correctly without the device just blanking out after a couple seconds.
For some reason actual unmodified P7 FEL files work though.

It might be because with the test files, the EL is not synced properly.
Any other untouched file maybe?

Would you be able to try one of the titles where the FEL is obvious (e.g. Power Rangers or Total Recall) to see if it is being used?

[RESET_9999]

Tested some files on the new FireTV Stick 4K Max.
Still has trouble with HDR10+ ending up with a black screen when Dolby Vision is triggered.

I couldn't get any of the FEL test files to play correctly without the device just blanking out after a couple seconds.
For some reason actual unmodified P7 FEL files work though.

It might be because with the test files, the EL is not synced properly.
Any other untouched file maybe? I tried the ones on AVS and here: viewtopic.php?p=104113#p104113

Otherwise I guess there might be a use for me to make a proper muxer..

that's because I did those samples with tsmuxer and it breaks something in the RPU when you split the file. I didn't know about that back then.
As @FubbAyH said, the ending credits of Power Ranger is a better way to verify if FEL is processed.

PS, I don't know why you're quiet about it but you should scream out loud that you updated your DV tools to generate DV metadata for ANY HDR10 MOVIE using madVR measurements lol
bye bye HDR10

[quietvoid]

PS, I don't know why you're quiet about it but you should scream out loud that you updated your DV tools to generate DV metadata for ANY HDR10 MOVIE using madVR measurements lol
bye bye HDR10

Because I haven't had the chance to test it. Some of madVR's scenes are very small and might cause flashes.