Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[Manixx2020beyound]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

Well some comparison news:
We can now compare RGB 8bit DV so we don’t need to do (LLDV/bug,)
Still a few more tests to come.
Bypassing the pink screen in rgb 8 dv
This clip is from the x700.

02E6E732-1657-487A-9B20-018EBFB35C91.jpeg

[mulucy]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

Well some comparison news:
We can now compare RGB 8bit DV so we don’t need to do (LLDV/bug,)
Still a few more tests to come.
Bypassing the pink screen in rgb 8 dv
This clip is from the x700.
02E6E732-1657-487A-9B20-018EBFB35C91.jpeg

Sorry for a silly question, but I see "RGB 8bit DV " and 12-bit something referred a lot here with TV-Led and LLDV, would you mind telling the difference, please?

[deadchip12]

So I just read this and it says the sony x700 can only support bitrate up to 100Mbps? So movies with higher bitrate than that will be scaled down in picture quality?
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/supp ... s/00190648

[HarperVision]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

I believe when you are playing ripped files with the Sonys and not discs, it actually does auto switch DV and HDR10. At least that’s been my experience with my X800M2.

With discs you have to manually switch though, as you’re saying.

I think I might have found one difference with appleTV profile 5 web-dls that could explain the color difference we noticed here .
I looked at the mediainfo of a couple of the appleTV p5 rip and they are all missing the color range flag FULL . this includes even the rip from itunes, not only the appleTV+ original. you can tell they are from itunes because they are also cropped (often overcropped). I think something is not right with either the way they rip appletv or the way Appletv files are encoded.

I’m wondering if maybe since LLDV was built for and based on Sony HDR displays that didn’t have enough horsepower to decode full RGB 8 bit TV Led DV, that LLDV is supposed to be at Full range, and not Limited Range like normal HDR10 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit? Normally it is changed from Full to Limited in the DV decoding and processing before it’s presented to the display panel.

I doubt they ever intended anyone like me to discover the trick with an HDFury to get sources like an AppleTV and various UHD Bluray players to exploit using LLDV for displays that otherwise wouldn’t be DV capable. So maybe with a Sony LLDV UHD TV it knows it’s getting a Full range signal and processes it accordingly, but when that same LLDV signal is being tricked by an HDFury and sent to a normal HDR10 display, it thinks it’s getting a Limited Range HDR10 signal but in fact is actually getting Full range and the TV processes it thinking it’s Limited Range, causing a mismatch?

Or maybe I’m not understanding what you wrote and its intentions?

[RESET_9999]

Sorry for a silly question, but I see "RGB 8bit DV " and 12-bit something referred a lot here with TV-Led and LLDV, would you mind telling the difference, please?

LLDV / player-led : it's the player doing the tonemapping which is buggy. It's sending a decoded 422 12bits signal (decoded so thats why we can capture it)
RGB 8bit tunneling/ tv-led: it's the TV doing the tonemapping which is accurate. it's still sending 422 12bits but wrapped in an 8bit RGB container. ( @manix thinks he found how to capture it but i don't believe him)

So I just read this and it says the sony x700 can only support bitrate up to 100Mbps? So movies with higher bitrate than that will be scaled down in picture quality?
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/supp ... s/00190648

don't worry about that. there is no quality scaled-down, the x700 doesnt have the power to do that. Many users here and I are using this player for DV and we never had any playback issues for any movies. (except for the known green screen bug with TS files)

I believe when you are playing ripped files with the Sonys and not discs, it actually does auto switch DV and HDR10. At least that’s been my experience with my X800M2.
With discs you have to manually switch though, as you’re saying.

You're almost right. The x700 will auto switch to DV and HDR10 if your HDR10 container is MKV but the problem is that the x700 only supports Atmos in a ts/m2ts/bluray container. (because mkvtoolnix splits the ac3 core)
Any TS/M2TS/bluray (HDR10 /SDR) will then get converted to DV. Netflix will also output everything in DV if you don't turn off DV in the settings.
It's really not an issue for me as I only use it for DV: I use my HTPC for HDR10/SDR.

The x700 will go even further and convert DV (even FEL) to HDR10 if you connect an HDR10 only display and leave DV turned on. Not only for file playback but on Netflix too. But I don't recommend doing that because it raises the black floor and you get incorrect metadata from netflix.

I’m wondering if maybe since LLDV was built for and based on Sony HDR displays that didn’t have enough horsepower to decode full RGB 8 bit TV Led DV, that LLDV is supposed to be at Full range, and not Limited Range like normal HDR10 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit? Normally it is changed from Full to Limited in the DV decoding and processing before it’s presented to the display panel.

I doubt they ever intended anyone like me to discover the trick with an HDFury to get sources like an AppleTV and various UHD Bluray players to exploit using LLDV for displays that otherwise wouldn’t be DV capable. So maybe with a Sony LLDV UHD TV it knows it’s getting a Full range signal and processes it accordingly, but when that same LLDV signal is being tricked by an HDFury and sent to a normal HDR10 display, it thinks it’s getting a Limited Range HDR10 signal but in fact is actually getting Full range and the TV processes it thinking it’s Limited Range, causing a mismatch?

Or maybe I’m not understanding what you wrote and its intentions?

I think only profile 5 from streaming is supposed to be Full range and I think you are correct, it's converted from full to limited when the player does the tonemapping.
I tried to force the full range on the AppleTV files which are somehow signaling a limited range and it didn't make any difference...

btw the trick you found for LLDV in HDR10 with the vertex, well the x700 has been doing exactly that since day 1 when you connect an HDR10 display. So, it is part of the DV SDK capabilities.
The vertex is doing it better though, it doesnt raise the black floor like the x700 does.

[deadchip12]

Does the green screen bug happen to m2ts files too? And I thought you once said it is no longer an issue if we remux the bmdv folder structure using tsmuxer and put it in root folder of the hdd?
Do we need to do anything in the settings to make sure the x700 is outputting tv led dolby vision?

[RESET_9999]

1-yes, m2ts too.
2-yes this is no longer an issue if we remux to a folders structure.
3-nothing to set up for tv-led, unlike the oppo you can't force it to output LLDV. It will send by default the best mode according to your TV EDID.

[mulucy]

Sorry for a silly question, but I see "RGB 8bit DV " and 12-bit something referred a lot here with TV-Led and LLDV, would you mind telling the difference, please?

LLDV / player-led : it's the player doing the tonemapping which is buggy. It's sending a decoded 422 12bits signal (decoded so thats why we can capture it)
RGB 8bit tunneling/ tv-led: it's the TV doing the tonemapping which is accurate. it's still sending 422 12bits but wrapped in an 8bit RGB container. ( @manix thinks he found how to capture it but i don't believe him)

thank you so much!

[tr000]

I check on this thread every two or three months, and every time I see DV is still in disarray

[fenton]

Personally if it was me I would just rip the iso and then play it back on a navidia shield tv as it has Dolby vision support and also Dolby atmos support

[parnexcodes]

the json file is a simple text file in which you copy/paste the script of step 3. ( you change the number according to the movies you're syncing)

first, you have to find the frame difference between the two videos. Personally, I use MPC-BE and find the same frame for both videos, press ''control-g'' and calculate the frame number difference. You can navigate frame by frame with ''control left/right arrow'' when the video is paused.

Another method that could be easier for you is to open both videos with staxrip ''video comparison'' (tool/advanced) and navigate to the same frame.
I prefer mpc because you don't have to load the video like you have to do with staxrip. if your pc/gpu is powerful enough you could open two instances of MPC.
then the framecount of both rpu and hdr10 video must match. so you calculate how many frames you have to remove or add at the end of the rpu. (include the frame you added or removed from the start of the rpu) ... just math at this point.

hope you understand, I'm not very good at explaining things


this is the json for SOUL

In my case the bluray source has higher framecount than webdl dv source.
At the same frame , dv = 19641 and bluray = 19664
Will the procedure be same ?

[chros]

@quietvoid, can you try out the profile8 sample on yours, which one is blinking for you using Kodi, 81?

Yes, 81. Though the RPU looks incorrect for profile 7 to me.

Thanks for testing, I don't think the RPU matters much here (we get 72 from other sources).
That's not a good news: I have to use the internal Plex app then when I can't use the Oppo (e.g. with cropped files).

Btw, since you are the DoVi guru (and we know a lot about hdr10), I don't really understand what the min (max) limunance setting does in reality. I don't see the point. Do you know anything about this? Thanks

What do you think guys, what is the best way to test double/tripple expansion? E.g. with grayscale ramps? (we can inject some fake RPUs into hdr10 stream)

[Rainer]

I did some tests whether DV is played on my TV some months ago.
That time I created mp4, ts & m2ts test files which worked.
I used that time ffmpeg and mp4muxer.

Later I realised that MakeMKV can also create an mkv with DV information.
Today I tried to use MakeMKV the first time to create the mkv. Aftwerwards I remuxed the mkv to m2ts using tsMuxer.
But my LG does not want to play that file at all.
What did I do wrong? Cannot I used the DV-mkv which MakeMKV created?

Code: Select all

Video
ID                                       : 4117 (0x1015)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : 36
Duration                                 : 1 h 54 min
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Language                                 : English
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 600 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 487 cd/m2

Edit:
Or which tool I can use to remux the mkv (created by MakeMKV) easily to m2ts (or mp4) and preserve the DV data?

[quietvoid]

Btw, since you are the DoVi guru (and we know a lot about hdr10), I don't really understand what the min (max) limunance setting does in reality. I don't see the point. Do you know anything about this? Thanks

I'm not sure what min/max you're talking about, in the RPU metadata?
It's usually the measured values for a frame/scene, so that's the dynamic part..

Also, setting the source min and max PQ in the RPU to proper values for limited has an effect.
Now I see down to 78 with 62/3696 (as spec says for profile 7), and 74 with 7/3079

Somehow 7/3079 is also being used in UHD BD.

From the data I can collect with the level 6 metadata (mastering display)..
Max 1000, min 1-10 should be 7/3079.
Max 4000, min 50 should be 62/3696.

Not sure about 10 000 nits but apparently Stacey Spears' sample would be correct by that logic.
Not sure why the image isn't though, so there might be a benefit of using different source values.

Maybe Dolby is crushing blacks a lot more for 10 000 nits mastered?

Here are samples to try:
7/3079: https://mega.nz/file/scFxEQob#UUiBMJBSV ... 1fwGJZ6URo
62/3696: https://mega.nz/file/YINjjYxK#IqOGwxla5 ... HTgern5QIs

[lexyz]

How does it look on your TVs?

Black levels seems mostly fine. Upclose to screen I can notice 64 slightly flashing, but not from viewing distance

But shield colors...

https://slow.pics/c/iHbxWsK2