Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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What's the general consensus here on the Dune 4k hdr bluray players? Can they play m2ts films stored on external hdd reliably? In my countries only bluray players from Sony and Dune are available so I'm looking at either the x700 or the Dune Pro Vision (which is twice as expensive as the x700 so I'm leaning towards the sony).

Dune can't do FEL DV.
The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

edit: VUI don't signal full range but they're apparently optional.
The difference would be trivial to test by reencoding the profile 5 files with everything properly set.

yep, I'm going to try that.

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deleted

[lexyz]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

[chros]

I looked at the mediainfo of a couple of the appleTV p5 rip and they are all missing the color range flag FULL . this includes even the rip from itunes, not only the appleTV+ original.

Interesting. Although I think it's different with Firestick, since I see the same from the normal apps as well (Netflix, ATV+, Disney+): it's indeed like a double expansion, like you set brightness to 49 on LG Oled in DoVi preset.

@quietvoid, can you try out the profile8 sample on yours, which one is blinking for you using Kodi, 81?

Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.

Do you know how to replicate the issue where it's clearly visible? (e.g. with sample, etc) I've read all the comments over bluray.com, but still don't understand/see the actual issue. Thanks

[RESET_9999]

I thought first that the signal was just set ''undefined'' but madVR is saying the stream is sending a limited flag when I play the original file. It would say ''best guess'' if it was really set to ''undefined''.

I will first try to add the flag FULL with mkvtoolnix which seems to have worked (at least with madVR).

Code: Select all

mkvmerge.exe -o D:\test.mkv --colour-range 0:2 D:\input.mkv

original / mkv edit

[mulucy]

Since you own a sony x700 bluray player, may I ask whether the usb port is 2.0 or 3.0? If I want to play movies on an hdd connected to that usb port, does the hdd need to be formatted as fat32?

usb 2.0 but more than fast enough. NTFS works.

I think I might have found one difference with appleTV profile 5 web-dls that could explain the color difference we noticed here .
I looked at the mediainfo of a couple of the appleTV p5 rip and they are all missing the color range flag FULL . this includes even the rip from itunes, not only the appleTV+ original. you can tell they are from itunes because they are also cropped (often overcropped). I think something is not right with either the way they rip appletv or the way Appletv files are encoded.

I am not sure if this missing FLAG discovery is the issue why all rips from Apple TV Plus are freezing after certain time at exact timestamp with my Fire TV Stick.

[quietvoid]

@quietvoid, can you try out the profile8 sample on yours, which one is blinking for you using Kodi, 81?

Yes, 81. Though the RPU looks incorrect for profile 7 to me.

I am not sure if this missing FLAG discovery is the issue why all rips from Apple TV Plus are freezing after certain time at exact timestamp with my Fire TV Stick.

Most cases of freezing are usually caused by a setup of Plex (server) + an Android device, with MP4 files.

[mulucy]

@quietvoid, can you try out the profile8 sample on yours, which one is blinking for you using Kodi, 81?

Yes, 81. Though the RPU looks incorrect for profile 7 to me.

I am not sure if this missing FLAG discovery is the issue why all rips from Apple TV Plus are freezing after certain time at exact timestamp with my Fire TV Stick.

Most cases of freezing are usually caused by a setup of Plex (server) + an Android device, with MP4 files.

I think it's an MP4 container. It does not happen with MKV files. Spot on, thanks!

[Manixx2020beyound]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

Well some comparison news:
We can now compare RGB 8bit DV so we don’t need to do (LLDV/bug,)
Still a few more tests to come.
Bypassing the pink screen in rgb 8 dv
This clip is from the x700.

02E6E732-1657-487A-9B20-018EBFB35C91.jpeg (816.59 KiB) Viewed 19287 times

[mulucy]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

Well some comparison news:
We can now compare RGB 8bit DV so we don’t need to do (LLDV/bug,)
Still a few more tests to come.
Bypassing the pink screen in rgb 8 dv
This clip is from the x700.
02E6E732-1657-487A-9B20-018EBFB35C91.jpeg

Sorry for a silly question, but I see "RGB 8bit DV " and 12-bit something referred a lot here with TV-Led and LLDV, would you mind telling the difference, please?

[deadchip12]

So I just read this and it says the sony x700 can only support bitrate up to 100Mbps? So movies with higher bitrate than that will be scaled down in picture quality?
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/supp ... s/00190648

[HarperVision]

@lexyz and @ragico . How does it look on your TVs?

Will check next weekend


The best players for lossless DV rips are still the oppo and the x700 (or x800m2).

Both have LLDV issues
Oppo is inaccurate in DV output after HDR10 playback.
X700 can't auto switch to DV

Sadly, any DV-capable device has issues

I believe when you are playing ripped files with the Sonys and not discs, it actually does auto switch DV and HDR10. At least that’s been my experience with my X800M2.

With discs you have to manually switch though, as you’re saying.

I think I might have found one difference with appleTV profile 5 web-dls that could explain the color difference we noticed here .
I looked at the mediainfo of a couple of the appleTV p5 rip and they are all missing the color range flag FULL . this includes even the rip from itunes, not only the appleTV+ original. you can tell they are from itunes because they are also cropped (often overcropped). I think something is not right with either the way they rip appletv or the way Appletv files are encoded.

I’m wondering if maybe since LLDV was built for and based on Sony HDR displays that didn’t have enough horsepower to decode full RGB 8 bit TV Led DV, that LLDV is supposed to be at Full range, and not Limited Range like normal HDR10 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit? Normally it is changed from Full to Limited in the DV decoding and processing before it’s presented to the display panel.

I doubt they ever intended anyone like me to discover the trick with an HDFury to get sources like an AppleTV and various UHD Bluray players to exploit using LLDV for displays that otherwise wouldn’t be DV capable. So maybe with a Sony LLDV UHD TV it knows it’s getting a Full range signal and processes it accordingly, but when that same LLDV signal is being tricked by an HDFury and sent to a normal HDR10 display, it thinks it’s getting a Limited Range HDR10 signal but in fact is actually getting Full range and the TV processes it thinking it’s Limited Range, causing a mismatch?

Or maybe I’m not understanding what you wrote and its intentions?

[RESET_9999]

Sorry for a silly question, but I see "RGB 8bit DV " and 12-bit something referred a lot here with TV-Led and LLDV, would you mind telling the difference, please?

LLDV / player-led : it's the player doing the tonemapping which is buggy. It's sending a decoded 422 12bits signal (decoded so thats why we can capture it)
RGB 8bit tunneling/ tv-led: it's the TV doing the tonemapping which is accurate. it's still sending 422 12bits but wrapped in an 8bit RGB container. ( @manix thinks he found how to capture it but i don't believe him)

So I just read this and it says the sony x700 can only support bitrate up to 100Mbps? So movies with higher bitrate than that will be scaled down in picture quality?
https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/supp ... s/00190648

don't worry about that. there is no quality scaled-down, the x700 doesnt have the power to do that. Many users here and I are using this player for DV and we never had any playback issues for any movies. (except for the known green screen bug with TS files)

I believe when you are playing ripped files with the Sonys and not discs, it actually does auto switch DV and HDR10. At least that’s been my experience with my X800M2.
With discs you have to manually switch though, as you’re saying.

You're almost right. The x700 will auto switch to DV and HDR10 if your HDR10 container is MKV but the problem is that the x700 only supports Atmos in a ts/m2ts/bluray container. (because mkvtoolnix splits the ac3 core)
Any TS/M2TS/bluray (HDR10 /SDR) will then get converted to DV. Netflix will also output everything in DV if you don't turn off DV in the settings.
It's really not an issue for me as I only use it for DV: I use my HTPC for HDR10/SDR.

The x700 will go even further and convert DV (even FEL) to HDR10 if you connect an HDR10 only display and leave DV turned on. Not only for file playback but on Netflix too. But I don't recommend doing that because it raises the black floor and you get incorrect metadata from netflix.

I’m wondering if maybe since LLDV was built for and based on Sony HDR displays that didn’t have enough horsepower to decode full RGB 8 bit TV Led DV, that LLDV is supposed to be at Full range, and not Limited Range like normal HDR10 YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit? Normally it is changed from Full to Limited in the DV decoding and processing before it’s presented to the display panel.

I doubt they ever intended anyone like me to discover the trick with an HDFury to get sources like an AppleTV and various UHD Bluray players to exploit using LLDV for displays that otherwise wouldn’t be DV capable. So maybe with a Sony LLDV UHD TV it knows it’s getting a Full range signal and processes it accordingly, but when that same LLDV signal is being tricked by an HDFury and sent to a normal HDR10 display, it thinks it’s getting a Limited Range HDR10 signal but in fact is actually getting Full range and the TV processes it thinking it’s Limited Range, causing a mismatch?

Or maybe I’m not understanding what you wrote and its intentions?

I think only profile 5 from streaming is supposed to be Full range and I think you are correct, it's converted from full to limited when the player does the tonemapping.
I tried to force the full range on the AppleTV files which are somehow signaling a limited range and it didn't make any difference...

btw the trick you found for LLDV in HDR10 with the vertex, well the x700 has been doing exactly that since day 1 when you connect an HDR10 display. So, it is part of the DV SDK capabilities.
The vertex is doing it better though, it doesnt raise the black floor like the x700 does.

[deadchip12]

Does the green screen bug happen to m2ts files too? And I thought you once said it is no longer an issue if we remux the bmdv folder structure using tsmuxer and put it in root folder of the hdd?
Do we need to do anything in the settings to make sure the x700 is outputting tv led dolby vision?

[RESET_9999]

1-yes, m2ts too.
2-yes this is no longer an issue if we remux to a folders structure.
3-nothing to set up for tv-led, unlike the oppo you can't force it to output LLDV. It will send by default the best mode according to your TV EDID.