Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

[DaMacFunkin]

I’m off to get some popcorn for round 2, this is freakin’ awesome

[pete19]

I’m off to get some popcorn for round 2, this is freakin’ awesome

you want more ? here is an encore...

most folks here are forgetting that 12bit 422 ONLY ever comes into play for profile 7 FEL - not even profile 7 MEL (10bit 420).

All the gazillion other DV profiles are all 420 drained sauce for streaming. THIS is easily 90+% of DV content.

Then, for disc releases (--> profile 7), (unfortunately) the majority of releases are MEL... so 12bit 422 (--> p7 FEL) only rarely ever comes into play.

This may be another reason why in the many Dolby docs this is not explicitly stated, to not confuse content creators who in 9/10 cases will use single DV layer BL (for garbage compressed streaming), and even if authoring disc deliverables, then often use MEL.

Even some of the largest disc releases do not get DV or DV FEL (--> SW, only EVIII from Ryan Johnson is DV, but MEL). There are authoring issues with FEL when one gets into the 2nd and 3rd layers on the UHD disc, so that seems to be another huge obstacle.

again: p7 FEL tv-led is as good as it gets right now.

[pete19]

and here's more...

there are only two (2) DV streams:

1) 8bit RGB via tunneling (for STD tv-led, as it contains both BL+EL data)
2) 12bit 422 for everything else (LLDV player-led, MEL, or single layer profiles)

IF (!) the actual max chroma subsampling was 420, then the 2nd stream variant above would only need to be 12bit 420 - there would be no need to use 12bit 422 (+ HDCP, hence you'd never use more bandwidth than needed).

MEL is just 10bit 420 anyways, all single layer profiles as well.
IF (!) profile 7 LLDV was 12bit 420 for FEL releases you could just use a 12bit 420 stream as LLDV carries no metadata (DV was already encoded by player).

But they specc'ed a 12bit 422 stream as LLDV for p7 FEL is a 12bit 422 signal.

[Pacer]

Hello everyone,

first I wanted to say a big THANK YOU to everyone so dedicated to get the DV playback riddle solved, first of all to yusesope, whose tool I've tried to use.

I've just had one UDH Bluray Disc (MI: Fallout), which I tried to get to run in DV after ripping it. With the help of yusesope's tool I was able to create an mp4 file which my LG OLED65GX9LA liked to play. I used the software and procedure described on p199 in this forum:

- ffmpeg to demux from BD m2ts file
- MUX_AND_CONVERT_TO_PROFILE_81.bat
- mp4muxer to get an .mp4 file

The file triggered DV on my LG TV, but I am not sure if it displayed the content correctly. That's why I would like to ask you more experienced people to take a look at my photo comparison (DSLR in manual mode). From left to right you see:

- MKV ripped with 1.15.3 from BD disc, played on my HiMedia Q10 Pro (which plays the file only in HDR10)
- same file, but played from my LG OLED65GX9LA with internal player via DLNA (which also plays it in HDR10)
- mp4-File created with the above procedure, played from my LG's internal player with active DV

Bildschirmfoto 2020-12-12 um 19.55.51.jpg

To me, the colors look quite different compared to the HDR10 variants of the movie. I do not have a hardware BD-UHD player to see how the movie would look like when played from there :-/

What are your thoughts on this?
In my expectation the colors should not differ between HDR10 and DV, right?

The EL is a 10-bit video bitstream that carries the residual between the source and the BL and the “dynamic” metadata for DV. An enhancement layer that carries a residual signal is = 0 (zero), that is, the decoder does not need to process the residual signal, is called minimum enhancement layer (MEL). If the residual signal is > 0, it is called full enhancement layer (FEL)

MI Fallout is a FEL Dolby Vision movie. (BL + EL (>0) + RPU)
Making DV files in single layer profile works only with MEL (EL=0).
The only correct method to have dual layers files (or dual tracks of single layer) is with mp4muxer with Dolby Vision in profile 7.

Interesting. Your statement stands in contrast to what Yusesope has written in his post:

UPDATE 02/10/20
I added the possibility to "convert" a UHD-BD (MEL or FEL, it doesn't matter) into a profile 8.1 file (Single Track Single Layer)

2. UHD-BD TO PROFILE 8.1
You can use both UHD-BD MEL and FEL

Can you explain, why this should not be possible with this tool?

Thanks a lot!
Pacer

[MastaG]

So which players are capable of playing FEL remuxes from network sources (Plex/Emby/SMB), e.g. the full deal retaining the 12bit 4000nits final picture like when playing the original disc?
e.g. remuxed into a TS or MKV container so I can add a high def audio track?

[shawnc22]

So which players are capable of playing FEL remuxes from network sources (Plex/Emby/SMB), e.g. the full deal retaining the 12bit 4000nits final picture like when playing the original disc?
e.g. remuxed into a TS or MKV container so I can add a high def audio track?

From network? The oppo and that's it.

[pete19]

So which players are capable of playing FEL remuxes from network sources (Plex/Emby/SMB), e.g. the full deal retaining the 12bit 4000nits final picture like when playing the original disc?
e.g. remuxed into a TS or MKV container so I can add a high def audio track?

Oppo with (free) Russian firmware hack can do all of that. And you can mux to m2ts or BDMV folder structure and it'll play it (and keep HD audio). As long as you don't trim the movie, tsmuxer creates a perfect DV mux.

[aboulfad]

Hi,
Can someone elaborate on yusesope´s comment copied below. Would (and how) DV streaming providers (NF, Apple) have to deal with the lack of EL in a DV profile 5 and potential « issues » such as chromatic aberrations. Or are those issues a side effect of yusesope method for creating a single track single layer DV media ?

One point that seems not so obvious, is that a Profile 5 can make use of dynamic metadata carried in the RPU- Reference Processing Unit, what is this? Thank you.

If instead I choose to play my files with the profiles dvhe.05 and dvhe.08 ..., the hardware decoder will try to process the Base Layer (BL) and to improve it through RPU metadata by discarding the EL layer.
however, the Base Layer is non-standard (it has a different color space than the IPTPQc2/IPT one) as extracted from a Bluray disk.
It should appear better than an HDR stream (since metadata is dynamic and non-static) but will not reach its maximum splendor due to the lack of data contained in the EL layer.
The lack of this information, however, could lead, in some cases, to evident chromatic aberrations.

[aboulfad]

After processing some old broken links I only found this excerpt from THIS on RPU and EL- it is unclear what are the differences in metadata between RPU vs EL ?

When encoded using the dual-layer scheme, the Dolby Vision stream consists of a base layer, an enhancement layer, and a reference processing unit:
...
• The enhancement layer carries the color and brightness differences between the graded source (that is, a source that is graded to Dolby Vision standards) and base-layer version of the source.
• The reference processing unit is a special Network Abstraction Layer (NAL) unit that contains the Dolby Vision metadata. It is also a complete Dolby Vision metadata access unit for the current picture.
...

[rocsen]

Question regarding the Sony X700 and profile 7 playback from file.

1) The best option is dual track single layer 7.06 (green screen when stop) or new single track dual layer 7.06 bl+el+rpu (no green screen when stop)? or are the same...

2) How to mux a mkv dual layer 7.06 in m2ts working file on X700? i have demos working ok but when i mux with tsmuxer (differents versions) always fail...

Thanks, sorry for my english.

1- I prefer dual track dual layer p7 because every movie works and creating the TS/m2ts files is much faster than any other method. But yeah, there's the green screen bug when you stop playback.
2- you create the single track dual layer with Makemkv or yusesope tool, and then you remux to TS or M2TS with the latest tsmuxer.

And is that from LAN (DLNA?) or just USB drives?

this player got only a 100mbps ethernet port so it's not fast enough for high bitrate movies.

I find if I copy the original m2ts from the BD rip, it plays perfectly fine on the X700 without the green screen bug.

[RESET_9999]

I find if I copy the original m2ts from the BD rip, it plays perfectly fine on the X700 without the green screen bug.

Yep, but that is fake DV. Press ''display'' on your remote and you will see that it say ''HDR'' only instead of ''Dolby Vision HDR'' .
To get real DV on the x700, you have to remux the original m2ts with tsMuxer or the mp4muxer.

Ok, so i give up after all my attempts, like 20 programs, cmd lines, etc.
Ive read at least 100 pages of this topic, but any kind soul can explain me in detail how i create a dual layer dolby vision mp4 with ac3 audio from the bluray backup but that works with the Lg b6?
Ive read too that the 2016 series of lg oleds cant read dual layer dolby vision but thats not true, i have a hobbit mp4 file downloaded from torrent that displays as dolby vision in my lg b6, when i use mp4box to demuxe the mp4 i see 3 files .hev1 .dvhe and ac3. files inside the mp4, so what i need to do to get this thing?Of course i tried the tsmux, mp4muxer with profile 7 comand line and that mp4 is only playable on my pc.
Thank you in advance

the 2016 series LG oled have issues with some metadata that causes a green screen.
btw, if you don't want to mess with the cmd-line, and all you want is dual layer DV + ac3, you can use the @Grencola tool:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php? ... ost1868184

[Manixx2020beyound]

420 is not wrong, the patent specs also only mention 12 bit YCbCr 420 reconstructed output.
As for the HDMI transmission, it is detailed as 12 bit YCbCr 422 because the metadata is also transported into the least significant bits.

first off, nobody said 420 is "wrong" - that is your wording. 420 simply has less color resolution, hence 422 is more desirable.

Second, both STD and LLDV output a 12bit 422 signal yet only STD contains in addition the dynamic metadata because it's tv-led. so the player-led stream (already DV decoded) which also contains 12bit 422 signal requires less bandwidth, hence it provides low latency...

again, BOTH DV stream types contain 12bit 422 signal (because that's the Dolby spec), yet LLDV has less data than the other... only STD carries metadata in the stream, not LLDV.... hence your 2nd statement is also wrong.

to recap:
all DV streams are 12 bit 422.
only tv-led contains the full dynamic metadata, so full stream requirements, hence RGB tunneling in 8bit float container is used.
player-led requires less bandwidth because it contains less data (still 12 bit 422 signal).
MEL is also 12 bit 422 but only contains a 10bit 420 signal, padded.

and to stress this part:

because the metadata is also transported into the least significant bits.

you make it sound like that "explains" a 12bit 420 final output. no, the metadata allows to reconstruct the full 12bit 422 master, which is why it is a 12bit 422 signal.

if final output was 12bit 420 (so EL only contains luminance, Y difference) for FEL STD, they wouldn't need a 12 bit 422 stream, they'd use a 12bit 420 stream. Metadata is the mere difference, it doesn't need "extra" space on top of the difference, especially since it's encoded as well.

Yes but
LLDV device processing,
Would still use the Fel data within the 12bit stream/device to produce the extra bits intended in final 12bit output.
LLDV still uses all the dv meta
(Intended to cut the signal meta transfer time between device & uhdtv ) atualize visual monitor processing time cause latency.
I say this because we can play a fel real uhd disc in LLDV is that producing a less imperfect image than the dv rgb8 FEL ?sending the meta I’m not sure 100% on that part of the equation.
Some do believe computation processing is best left to devices than the uhdtv.
So the real question is, is device processing better than uhd tv which each UhDtv tone maps differently producing different doblyvision picture baced on tv limitations
But is does make sense why Xbox won’t offer regular dv no good for gaming & we could see why sending dv dynamic meta rgb8 while playing a high intensity doblyvision game u could just visualize the laggg lol

[shawnc22]

Hi,
Can someone elaborate on yusesope´s comment copied below. Would (and how) DV streaming providers (NF, Apple) have to deal with the lack of EL in a DV profile 5 and potential « issues » such as chromatic aberrations. Or are those issues a side effect of yusesope method for creating a single track single layer DV media ?

One point that seems not so obvious, is that a Profile 5 can make use of dynamic metadata carried in the RPU- Reference Processing Unit, what is this? Thank you.

If instead I choose to play my files with the profiles dvhe.05 and dvhe.08 ..., the hardware decoder will try to process the Base Layer (BL) and to improve it through RPU metadata by discarding the EL layer.
however, the Base Layer is non-standard (it has a different color space than the IPTPQc2/IPT one) as extracted from a Bluray disk.
It should appear better than an HDR stream (since metadata is dynamic and non-static) but will not reach its maximum splendor due to the lack of data contained in the EL layer.
The lack of this information, however, could lead, in some cases, to evident chromatic aberrations.

When you’re doing conversions from a UHD disc to single layer, you’re going to lose data (neglible in MEL). There is currently not a lossless way from converting from double to single layer where the info in the EL is reencoded into the BL; any info in the EL is just being discarded. The issue complicates when you further force the single-layer product to profile 5. Original profile 5 videos are encoded in a different colorspace than UHD discs, and the current available conversion process is not doing any colorspace conversions. When a player encounters a converted profile 5 video, it will play it in the p5 (IPTPQc2) colorspace, but the file is still encoded in the original UHD profile 7 colorspace— leading to potential chromatic abberations. Streaming services don’t have this issue simply because their content is encoded in profile 5 to begin with. The BL in these content is completely different than the one found on UHD discs. For more reading on BLs, ELs, RPUs, and anything DV/HDR related, I would start here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=4.

[aboulfad]

When you’re doing conversions from a UHD disc to single layer, you’re going to lose data (neglible in MEL). ... The issue complicates when you further force the single-layer product to profile 5. Original profile 5 videos are encoded in a different colorspace than UHD discs, and the current available conversion process is not doing any colorspace conversions. When a player encounters a converted profile 5 video, it will play it in the p5 (IPTPQc2) colorspace, but the file is still encoded in the original UHD profile 7 colorspace— leading to potential chromatic abberations. Streaming services don’t have this issue simply because their content is encoded in profile 5 to begin with. The BL in these content is completely different than the one found on UHD discs. For more reading on BLs, ELs, RPUs, and anything DV/HDR related, I would start here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=4.

Hi, thank you ! in summary - Mode 2 of yusesope's tool is NOT doing a colorspace conversion from UHD P7 to P5, hence the potential artefacts. So what do we end up with in terms of pic quality for a single track single layer (STSL) P5 processed from an original UHD P7 ? (which is the only option for Infuse Pro->ATV4k users)

I have been trying to disseminate differences between the media shared by yusesope in THIS post on my LG OLED65E7P (via usb3) and I find it hard to find some (comparing STSL P5 with STDL P7 on my TV).

Once I receive my gear, I will rip some DV movies that I also have on ATV4k and "try" to compare the PQ: ATV original P5 vs (UHD P7 -> Mode 2 - STSL P5). It seems though that the exercise of ripping UHD to eventually stream them to ATV4K is probably inferior in PQ but I wanted to have control on the audio part.

[rocsen]

I find if I copy the original m2ts from the BD rip, it plays perfectly fine on the X700 without the green screen bug.

Yep, but that is fake DV. Press ''display'' on your remote and you will see that it say ''HDR'' only instead of ''Dolby Vision HDR'' .
To get real DV on the x700, you have to remux the original m2ts with tsMuxer or the mp4muxer.

I see it now, thanks for pointing that out!