Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced Only"

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bobhatli
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:36 am

Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced Only"

Post by bobhatli »

I'm working on a Windows 10 desktop with MakeMKV 1.10.7. I select the correct playlist for a BD video (Baby Driver for example) then uncheck "Forced Only" for both (2) English subtitle tracks so I'll get full subtitles. I run the MakeMKV conversion but subtitles do not appear when playing the output .MKV with Windows Media Player.

Even if I add element "Track Enabled" = "Yes" for both subtitle tracks using "MKVToolNix GUI" header editor, no subtitles are detected by Brorsoft's Video Converter and none are included in the .MP4 output file.

Note that I just moved to my new Windows 10 system from a Windows 7 system. Under Windows 7 I performed many conversions, including Baby Driver, in the exact same way with no problems.

What am I missing? Is MakeMKV not compatible with Windows 10?
Woodstock
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by Woodstock »

MakeMKV works the same on Win7 and Win10 - I've tested that myself.

What I have not tested is whether Windows Media Player supports PGS subtitles found in Bluray video. I know VLC and other players do.
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jmonier
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:38 pm

Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by jmonier »

Not all disks use Forced Subtitles. On some they are a separate (non-forced) subtitle track. You may have to use trial-and-error to find what you're looking for.
bobhatli
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by bobhatli »

My main concern is to run Brorsoft Video Converter on the .MKV file. I don't really care about Windows Media Player or VLC playing the .MKV which to me is just an intermediate step towards an MP4.

I stress again that I have done 100s of conversions on my Windows 7 PC going from BD to .MKV to MP4. I had no problem until I moved to a new PC with Windows 10. From what you say, Win 10 cannot be the cause of my problem. But there IS a problem nevertheless. I've spoken with the Brorsoft people and as a result of that exchange and further testing, came to the conclusion that the issue is not with them.

I should also mention that when I play certain of these Baby Driver .MKV outputs with missing subtitles, they have an unusual audio track which I have never experienced before. This audio consists of a voice-over describing what's appearing onscreen. For example, at the very start of the video, before opening credits, the SONY logo expands. The audio voice-over actually describes this in detail. It's like a track for someone who's blind. I can provide you a copy of this file, though it's 24GB long.

Another thing which bears mentioning is that I have always used AnyDVD (for BD, AnyDVD HD) by Slyfox to rip the DVD/BD to hard disk. Then I use MakeMKV on the disk files. Thinking about that strange audio track, is it possible that AnyDVD has interacted with MakeMKV in such a way that the audio track has been substituted for the subtitle track? Bit of a stretch, huh?
Woodstock
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by Woodstock »

You're describing the "audio descriptive" track. It has a special name, but it is NOT the primary audio track.

If your process involves going through a conversion step after creating the MKV file, you may want to use my tactic - I tell MakeMKV to extract ALL audio and subtitle tracks, then use VLC to check each one to see which I want in the final conversion. MakeMKV will dispose of "forced only" tracks that have no subtitles, but you will get the full subtitle tracks regardless.
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bobhatli
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by bobhatli »

Ok, I tried your tactic. I did MakeMKV without checking or unchecking any subtitle track. Then I played the output with VLC and can turn on any of the subtitle tracks just as you say. Works fine so far.

Continuing with your tactic, I decide I want the first track, English. So I edit the .MKV header to enable subtitle track #7, English (the first of 2 English tracks). There is a second English track which I leave alone.

Then I open the .MKV with Brorsoft VC. But again, I am NOT offered the option of enabling either of the 2 English tracks. On my previous system I would have been offered a menu with showing only the first English track, which I had enabled in the header. This I would check, do the VC conversion, and English subtitles would be permanently displayed in the .MP4 file.

Note also that when I play the .MKV in the VC preview screen, no subtitles appear. This too suggests VC has not detected a subtitle track.

Finally, if I play the .MP4 with VLC and select the Subtitle tab, there is no list and I can't enable any subtitle.

This is the root of my issue. What you describe for VLC works fine, but Brorsoft VC does not seem to detect the subtitle track. So I can't get subtitles into the final movie file.

BTW, in case I haven't made it clear, I'm not trying to get only "Forced Subtitles". I want subtitles for ALL the dialog.
Chetwood
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by Chetwood »

Why waste time on Brorsoft Video Converter (!) instead of using free solutions like Handbrake that get the job done easily?
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bobhatli
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by bobhatli »

Dear Chetwood, whoever you are,

Q: Why waste time with Brorsoft Video Converter?

Ans: Because I chose to use Brorsoft, I like it, and it has always worked for me up until now.

I worked as a software engineer for 35 years and we NEVER told a customer, "We can't fix your problem. Try using a different tool."

Your attitude reminds me of the old Dilbert cartoon where he admits their software has bugs so, to get it to market, they reclassified them as "security features".
Woodstock
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by Woodstock »

In VLC, the Subtitle->Subtitle Track menu should list all the subtitles it sees in the file. You're saying it is empty?

Editing the header itself adds a wildcard that I cannot help you with. I do know that, with all tracks selected during the rip, handbrake allows me to choose which ones to include (and mark as default, although that is rather useless) in the compressed file. Not sure why your other software would have a problem with that.

Note that I have not personally seen playback software that respects the "default" flag for subtitles. I know it exists, but I cannot say where.

Every playback software or device I have experience with always plays the FIRST subtitle track found by default. Some will play the first one in the preferred language, but none of them play the one with the "default" flag set, if it isn't the first one listed in the MUXed file. I've tested that by simply re-ordering the tracks with mkvmerge, without changing flags.
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Chetwood
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Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by Chetwood »

bobhatli wrote:Dear Chetwood, whoever you are,
Obviously a poster on this forum, duh. Unlike you, though, I'm not stuck on some crappy software that can't get the job done properly and which I could have saved top dollar for by using free alternatives like Handbrake, XMedia Recode, Staxrip, Hybrid... that do.

With your long experience as software developer you just might find out how to get it to work before Woodstock runs out of interest in these pointless issues. Good luck!
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bobhatli
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:36 am

Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by bobhatli »

Dear Chetwood,

After reading your last post my first instinct was to retort with something(s) equally hostile, like getting a life beyond reading other people's mail and making unsolicited comments.

But it so happens, after some research into HandBrake showed it actually was at the top of the VC heap, I had already taken your unsolicited suggestion and tried it out. I found it to be feature rich, flexible and with an intuitive user interface. So thanks for sticking your nose in.

Now to tell poor Woodstock he's off the hook.
bobhatli
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:36 am

Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by bobhatli »

Dear Woodstock,

Here comes the good news. I asked Brorsoft to set up a download of the obsolete VC version I was using on my Win 7 PC, 4.8.6.6, so I could test it in my new environment. What do you know? It works just fine on my new PC with Win 10.

So it seems clear the problem I've been having began sometime between Brorsoft V4.8.6.6 and V4.9.0.0. What's equally clear is that MakeMKV is not a party to the problem.

If you've read my post to Chetwood you know I hooked up with HandBrake and like it very much. Go figure, huh? Some bud-in-ski shoots off and saves us both some work. Guess that's the nature of forums.

So, Woodstock, thank you for all your efforts. Truth be told, I was pretty tired and not a little embarrassed from chasing this issue myself. Now Brorsoft is out, HandBrake is in.
Woodstock
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 pm

Re: Subtitles are not in .MKV although I unchecked "Forced O

Post by Woodstock »

I'm sure the Brorsoft people will want you to hang in there long enough for them to get a sample of the failing file... A regression like this is a problem for them.

Glad it's straightened around. Over 80% of everything I rip with MakeMKV involves multiple subtitle tracks, so I was sure it wasn't an issue with MakeMKV.
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