Original .SSIF files versus tiny .SSIF.MAP MakeMKV files

[setarip_old]

@mike admin

Hi!

I was recently exploring a "new 3D" (NOT anaglyph) Blu-ray disc, "Dinosaurs Alive" and noticed that while AnyDVD copied the five .SSIF files at the same combined 15.2Gb size indicated on the original disc, MakeMKV instead generated five ".SSIF.MAP" files with a combined filesize of a miniscule 56.2KB.

Unfortunately, my present equipment is not, under any circumstances, capable of playing back the 3D version on this disc, so I cannot pursue this further on my own, hence my posting a question or two here for you Mike:

Can either or both versions (MakeMKV and AnyDVD) be successfully used to make a completely playable backup copy (3D and 2D)? If one or the other cannot be used, would you be good enough to explain why?

Why the different handling of the .SSIF files?

Do both sets of files actually yield the same results?

[mike admin]

What about this http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3455 ?

[setarip_old]

@mike admin

Thank you very much for providing the link to your earlier conversation about ".SSIF" files.

Unfortunately, something you said left me utterly confused:

But I'm surprised that your player can't play 3D from two M2TS files. Even more, the "main" M2TS file always contains reference to the "secondary" M2TS and I'm surprised that this reference isn't parsed properly.

If two .M2TS files are required to display 3D format, what is the purpose of the additional .SSIF files? Or, if the .SSIF files really exist at their indicated (large) sizes, what is the need for second .M2TS files?

[mike admin]

Many file systems, including UDF, support a notion of hard-linking - the same area on the disc may be referenced by multiple files. On a blu-ray disc the 3D title is presented by following files:
CLPI and M2TS for a "primary" clip that only has a 2D picture and all audio/subs. This file is played by a regular player.
CLPI and M2TS for a "secondary" clip that only has a 3D MVC extension data.
On the disc these two files are physically interleaved - a few kilobytes of first, few kilobytes of second, few kilobytes of first and so on. The physical (interleaved) area where these files are stored is referenced by 3 files - first M2TS, second M2TS and the whole area again as SSIF file. Again, with UDF one may have any number of files referencing the same physical area on the disc ( on some DVDs it's used for protection, when copying a DVD in file mode creates 60 GB worth of files).

So, if one copies entire 3D blu-ray disc in file mode, each 3D title will be copied twice (by copying the same disc area 2 times). The interleaving is crucial when playing a disc because of limited read speed. For a playback from a hard drive physical location doesn't matter as any player should have no problem reading 2 M2TS files at the same time.

In order to save space MakeMKV doesn't save SSIF file (that is a duplicate of two M2TS files) but rather saves a text file with "instructions" how to recreate one.

To my knowledge AnyDVD saves the full SSIF file. I'm unaware of any CD-burning application that would be able to burn such SSIF file back to disc with proper interleaving.

[setarip_old]

@mike admin

(Last questions from me on this topic - I promise ;>})

The physical (interleaved) area where these files are stored is referenced by 3 files - first M2TS, second M2TS and the whole area again as SSIF file.

1) Can a disc that contains ONLY 2 of the 3 files properly playback the 3D version (assuming appropriate hardware)?

2) For the purpose of experimentation, is there a way to circumvent the "Requires 3D-specific hardware" notification that is displayed on PC systems and standalone player/TV setups that don't meet the requirements?

[mike admin]

1) Can a disc that contains ONLY 2 of the 3 files properly playback the 3D version (assuming appropriate hardware)?

Assuming that both M2TS files are properly interleaved; technically, yes. In practice - it's up to the player firmware. However, if you managed to create a properly interleaved ISO, why not create SSIF wrapper?

2) For the purpose of experimentation, is there a way to circumvent the "Requires 3D-specific hardware" notification that is displayed on PC systems and standalone player/TV setups that don't meet the requirements?

If it is just a java check - yes. MakeMKV should process 2D portion without any problems. I don't know if any software already exist that can detect and remove this check from full disc backup.