Forced subtitles

[dcoke22]

I do as DukeFleed suggests. I choose to rip both the movie and any 'DVD extras' that are on the disc (like deleted scenes or making-of documentaries). I often end up with multiple .mkv files from a single disc, but usually only one .mkv file is the movie. Occasionally a disc will have two versions of a movie, like the theatrical cut and a Director's cut. In those cases I end up with a .mkv file of each version of the movie.

Making .mkv files from a backup is usually so much faster than making them from the optical disc that it is possible to select all the audio and subtitle tracks of the language(s) of your choice, test the resulting .mkv file, update the selections in MakeMKV (you can both name tracks and set the default and/or forced flags in the MakeMKV interface), and create the .mkv file of the movie again.

Once MakeMKV is used to create a (decrypted) backup, the backup can be opened by choosing File -> Open files and then pointing it at a backup folder. On a Mac and in the case of a blu-ray or a UHD, the BDMV item inside the backup folder is the thing to choose. On a Windows (and probably Linux too) computer choose the 'index.bdmv' or 'MovieObject.bdmv' inside the BDMV folder.

[leosantare]

"But how many subtitles can there be in a movie? If you only save those in your language, and let's say that in addition to the main and forced ones, there are also those of any comments on the movie, for example from the director or actor: will there be 3-4 in total? They don't seem like a lot to me.

And with VLC you can choose, as mentioned, to deactivate them all or activate the ones you want. Then if you want to do a job well done, then in this case you use Mkvtoolnix, and choose which subtitle you want by default, or eliminate the superfluous ones, you can do whatever you want."

Thanks again for the help and I didn't mean to ignore you. Thats just it, any subs in addition to the main and forced ones, I do not want in the mkv that I create. I understand these specific subs can be completely removed from the mkv after the fact using mkvtoolnix.

It sounds like if I don't use mkvtoolnix afterwards, I would have to mess around with the subs every time I go to play a mkv when using VLC. For example, I would have to choose which subs are the correct ones. Otherwise, I may end up with the subs for a commentary being displayed while playing the main feature.

Either way, I'm just going to rip 2012 with all the subs selected and go from there. I'm curious to see what happens when I go to play the mkv afterwards in VLC. For example, which subs can be turned on/off and if the correct subs are displayed. I think I will pass on making a backup but thank you for mentioning it.

Thanks for your patience everyone.

[leosantare]

Okay, I finally ripped 2012 with all English subs selected. I took a screenshot of makeMKV when it finished. I thought I was supposed to look for something about flags but don't see anything of importance.

When I go to play the mkv in vlc, there are (4) subtitle tracks that I can turn on/off. They all seem to do the same exact thing which I don't understand. Now, what exactly do I do, open the file in mkvtoolnix to remove (3) of the subtitle tracks?

Unfortunately, when I go to turn on any of the subtitle tracks, they don't display properly with HDR enabled in Windows. I tired changing the color of the text for the subtitles in the VLC preferences, but it doesn't help. As you can see, when I disable HDR in Windows, the subtitle track is displayed properly. Well, this kind of defeats the whole purpose since I definitely want HDR enabled when watching my mkv's. I guess I will have to wait for VLC to fix this issue with an update.

[leosantare]

Here are the screen shots

[leosantare]

It's not letting me attach the other screenshots for some reason. Each screen shot is less than 1MB in size.

[DukeFleed]

Okay, I finally ripped 2012 with all English subs selected. I took a screenshot of makeMKV when it finished. I thought I was supposed to look for something about flags but don't see anything of importance.

When I go to play the mkv in vlc, there are (4) subtitle tracks that I can turn on/off. They all seem to do the same exact thing which I don't understand. Now, what exactly do I do, open the file in mkvtoolnix to remove (3) of the subtitle tracks?

Unfortunately, when I go to turn on any of the subtitle tracks, they don't display properly with HDR enabled in Windows. I tired changing the color of the text for the subtitles in the VLC preferences, but it doesn't help. As you can see, when I disable HDR in Windows, the subtitle track is displayed properly. Well, this kind of defeats the whole purpose since I definitely want HDR enabled when watching my mkv's. I guess I will have to wait for VLC to fix this issue with an update.

Hi.

I can't answer your question about HDR, I don't have an HDR monitor, and I don't even know what the support is like on Linux (I'm a Linux user, using EndeavourOS).

Instead, to find out which are the forced subs, I'll tell you how I do it. Let's say the .mkv file contains 3 subs. I usually use VLC, I check them by activating them one at a time. If the sub is the main one, I notice it right away because the subtitles appear on the video for each actor's speech. If they are subs for comments on the movie, usually the commenter introduces himself at the beginning. So the last sub must necessarily be the forced one if of course the movie in question has them, but in this case I know it because I know the movie.

Once I understand which ones are forced, I take note of their place (in the example it is #3), which I will need for Mkvtoolnix.

Then, if I want to be even more sure, I use SubTitle Edit, load the .mkv file, and check all the subs again. However, I also extract the subs afterwards (with another software), because I have an Asus media player that does not read PGS subs, and so I transform them either into subrip (.srt) or even better into vobsub (.idx/.sub).

[leosantare]

The HDR is a very well known issue. Apparently, it's been an issue for years. That aside..

There are (5) possible choices with the sub tracks for this mkv, 2012 UHD. This is shown in the previous screen shot I posted. (Disabled, track #1, track #2, track #3 and track #4.)
The forced subs appear with all (5) options. Therefore, I don't understand what you mean by "to find out which are the forced subs." It's like the forced subs are part of the mkv, I don't think they can be turned off. I will try to post a screenshot of the forced subs being displayed.

I have selected each sub track in VLC, one at a time and below are the results.
Track #1 - English subs for the entire movie along with a description of things being done. Like closed caption.
Track #2 - English subs for the entire movie
Track #3 - English subs for the entire movie along with a description of things being done. Like closed caption.
Track #4 - English subs for the entire movie

Therefore, tracks #1 and #3 are exactly the same and tracks #2 and #4 are exactly the same. None of them are subs for a commentary because nothing appears at the beginning like a director introducing himself. I would want either track #2 or track #4 because I don't want the additional description of things being done. I will try to post a screenshot of tracks #1 and #3 being displayed and tracks #2 and #4 being displayed.

I will wait to hear back before I mess with mkvtoolnix. Thanks.

[DukeFleed]

My example was by exclusion, once you knew which were the main subs and those of the comments, the last sub had to be those of the forced ones.

Anyway, at this point I suggest you do a subsequent check of the subs: install SubTitle Edit, and also (possibly) an OCR software. Load the .mkv file, and check all the subs: I assure you that this way you will know exactly what each sub corresponds to.

If instead you don't want, then just use Mkvtoolnix with the sub you think is right, and then watch the movie. If you are not satisfied then use Mkvtoolnix again with another sub.

I don't know how else to help you, I'm sorry.

[leosantare]

Yeah, I don't understand most of your message so I will just forget about the subtitles. Thanks anyway

[DukeFleed]

Yeah, I don't understand most of your message so I will just forget about the subtitles. Thanks anyway

Hi,

I'm sorry you didn't understand everything, I'll try to explain myself better.

SubTitle Edit is a multiplatform program, it's free (open source), it's a subtitle editor, but it also converts them: https://www.nikse.dk/subtitleedit

I recommended it to you because it's very useful to know, as I told you, what the main subtitles are, the forced ones, etc. of a .mkv file. When I have doubts because of VLC (for example I don't see the forced subtitles but I know they should be there), or I want more confirmation, I use it.

To use it, once installed and started, just drag the .mkv file into its window, and a list of the subs that the .mkv file contains will appear. Select them one at a time and consult them, it's much easier than VLC. Then there would also be other ways (with other software) but I don't want to confuse you.

The OCR (Optical Character Recognition) software is instead useful if you want to convert the subtitles of the bluray (PGS) to another format, for example to subrip (.srt) which are in text format. Using Linux I don't know what software there are on Windows, and so I wouldn't know which one to recommend. But if you don't need to convert the subtitles it is not necessary to install it.

As for Mkvtoolnix, if you don't want to install SubTitle Edit to have further confirmations of the forced subs, and you are sure to use subtitle n.2 or n.4 (as you said in your other post), then try to save a .mkv file using subtitle n.2 first and then n.4, and see how it comes out. Remember that Mkvtoolnix does not overwrite the original file, but saves it separately, so you can do all the tests you want.

If I was not clear this time too, tell me, I will try to be even clearer

[leosantare]

I thought you were trying to say you didn't want to help me anymore. First, I only want to use one program for the subtitles. I don't understand what you mean by mkvtoolnix saves it separately. After I rip the disc with all the sub options selected, I want to find out which subs I want, remove the one I don't want, save the mkv and be done. I was under the impression that with mkvtoolnix, you can remove the unwanted subs from the mkv and then save the mkv.

When all said and done, I want to be able to open a MKV in VLC and when I go to select a sub track, there will only be (2) options, disabled or the subs track for the main feature. By selecting the sub track #1, the subs for the main feature will be displayed. I would always want the mkv to default to disabled (off) in VLC. Whereas, the forced subs will be displayed by default, no option to turn on or off. (Which I understand is how it is now for 2012.)

If I use subtitle edit, do I then need to use mkvtoolnix after? Can I just use subtitle edit alone and will this save the mkv with the subs the way I want them?

Like I said, I rip all my 4k discs with the main feature and top audio track. I'm looking to also include the forced subs (if available) and the optional subs for the main feature. I playback all my mkvs with VLC. With all that said, would I ever need to convert the subtitles? (If so, I don't even think this is worth doing, too complicated)

Like I said in my previous message, the forced subs for 2012 appear even when the sub track selected in VLC is disabled. To me, this means the forced subs are displaying as they should and can't be turned on or off. Therefore, I still don't understand what you mean by find out which subs are the forced ones. This is because they appear with all (5) options selected. I posted screenshots. Watching the movie in VLC with each sub track selected, I said track 1 and 3 are the same and track 2 and 4 are the same. I explained the difference between them. Are you saying this is not true?

[DukeFleed]

I didn't say I didn't want to help you anymore, but that I don't know what to do beyond what I told you. I answered you because I realized that something I had told you was not clear, and so I explained it again in more detail. I also add that I don't speak English and I rely on Google Translate to translate, so I struggle.

I don't understand what you mean by mkvtoolnix saves it separately.

I wanted to say that with Mkvtoolnix, every time you make a change to the original .mkv file, it saves it to a new .mkv file, it doesn't overwrite the original. I hope I was clear this time.

Like I said in my previous message, the forced subs for 2012 appear even when the sub track selected in VLC is disabled. To me, this means the forced subs are displaying as they should and can't be turned on or off.

I have never had VLC display forced subtitles without them being activated (manually or automatically with a flag set), or if they are not present (saved) in the .mkv file.

However, I remember that for a dvd, the forced subtitles were not saved in the .mkv file, but were only present in the main subtitles. In that case, the firmware of the living room bluray players, extrapolates the forced ones from the main ones and makes them appear. Consequently, if I had used VLC, in order to see the forced subtitles I would have had to activate the main subtitles (but obviously, for every speech of an actor they always appeared). I do not know if I was clear.

Therefore, I still don't understand what you mean by find out which subs are the forced ones.

I've already said how I do it, but I'll say it again. On every rip I have made of my blurays (standard, not UHD), I always save the main subtitles and the forced ones if they are there (if MakeMKV does not find them it warns). I am not an expert in VLC, but I use it to see which are the forced subtitles (because then I know their position), or as mentioned I also use SubTitle Edit. There is nothing to understand, if MakeMKV found them it saved them in the .mkv file, you just need to use Mediainfo https://mediaarea.net/it/MediaInfo/Download to notice it. All subtitles can also be extracted and saved in separate files thanks to special software.

Once I know the position of the forced subtitles (for example, they are #2), I load the .mkv file into Mkvtoolnix, in the window with the main list of the .mkv contents I locate the position (in this case #2) of the forced subtitles, I activate their flag and also the default one, and I remove the latter from the main subtitles. I save the .mkv file. All done.

Once I say that, I really give up. I don't know how to help you, wait for someone who can. The only thing I suggest you do is try with Mkvtoolnix. As I said you can do all the tests you want, the original .mkv file remains unchanged.

[leosantare]

Okay so with mkvtoolnix, I create a new mkv and if it's the way I want it, I can delete the old one, correct?

Can you post some screen shots on what to do in mkvtoolnix for this particular title? I don't know how to use mkvtoolnix whatsoever.

[leosantare]

I can't even download mkvtoolnix. I tried to but ended up installing PC app store on my PC. Every time I try to download mkvtoolnix, it wants to download the damn PC app store instead, nonsense. Please post a direct link.

[leosantare]

I managed to download an outdated version of mkvtoolnix from another website. It's really ridiculous that I can't even download the current version from the actual website. Moving on, I opened mkvtoolnix and see the (4) sub tracks in the mkv which I highlighted in the screenshot below.

I managed to remove (3) sub tracks and then created a new mkv by clicking on "start multiplexing."

Now, when I go watch the mkv in VLC, there is only (1) sub track to choose from instead of the original (4). By default, the sub track is not enabled, the default is disabled. Therefore, if I want to turn on the subtitles for the main feature, I just click on Sub Track>Track 1. This is what I want, I don't want the main subs to be enabled by default. Please see below

Again, for whatever reason, the forced subs for this mkv do not show up in mkvtoolnix or VLC as a track. Instead, the forced subs are displayed automatically. There is no way to turn them on/off. Essentially, I can remove all (4) sub tracks from this mkv and the forced sub will still be displayed by default. It's as if I can't remove them from the mkv. Do you understand?

Like I said, I want the forced subs (if available) to be enabled by default. Therefore, if I run into a mkv that actually has a forced sub track, I will want it to say YES for forced display flag, correct? Do I want it to also say YES for default track flag or track enabled flag?

Like I also said, in addition to the forced subs (if available) I only want the subs for the main feature. Therefore, I understand I want the main sub track to say NO for forced display flag. This is because I want the main subs to be disabled by default. I also understand that I want the main sub track to say YES for track enabled flag. This way it's shows up as an option in VLC when wanting to enable the main subs. I don't see any point to have the main sub track say YES for default track flag. This is because there will only ever be one option to choose from in my case.

Basically, I'm asking which flags should be set to YES for a forced sub track and which flags should be set to YES for a main sub track.

Thank you!