All of the movie-only 3D BD rips I have made with makMKV start playback in my JRiver Media Center player (using madVR) to my 3D TV as Side-by-Side. Then I have to manually switch my TV to 3D "SBS" mode.
I'm not fully understand all of this 3D technology (and I've been Googling/reading on this for a while now). From what I understand, "frame packed" is best because it provides full resolution to each eye. Whereas Side-by-Side (SBS) and Over-Under (O/U) or Top-Bottom (T/B) only provide half resolution to each eye. I've read that the BD movies are created (video stored) in SBS or O/U (T/B) but the player/renderer determines whether it is sent to display as "frame packed" or SBS or O/U. I'm confused on this part. I would like to have the movies play as Frame packed to get the highest resolution.
Can this be done with using mkv rip?
Is it something coded in the mkv format/header that determines what is sent to display - or is it up to something outside of the movie file?
Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
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CountryBumkin
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:03 pm
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spazzman90
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:20 pm
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
What I have discovered so far.
MakeMKV will properly rip a frame packed 3D bluray bit perfect. However, the only way I can seem to get it to playback properly in 3D is with Stereoscopic Player. Even then you have to have a video card with a supported chipset and a HDMI 1.4 path from the computer to the tv. (any audio receivers, splitters, extenders, need to be 1.4 compliant)
If all these conditions are met, then it will automatically 'turn on' the 3D in my projector and display proper 3D, the exact same way it behaves when a 3D bluray is played in my PS3. And yes, the image is superior to any of the half side by side or over under by a long shot. It would be nice if there were other playback options, as Stereoscopic player is not exactly cheap. Also the audio setup options leave much to be desired.
Would be very interested in hearing about successful 3D playback of these frame packed rips by any other player.
-Jeff
MakeMKV will properly rip a frame packed 3D bluray bit perfect. However, the only way I can seem to get it to playback properly in 3D is with Stereoscopic Player. Even then you have to have a video card with a supported chipset and a HDMI 1.4 path from the computer to the tv. (any audio receivers, splitters, extenders, need to be 1.4 compliant)
If all these conditions are met, then it will automatically 'turn on' the 3D in my projector and display proper 3D, the exact same way it behaves when a 3D bluray is played in my PS3. And yes, the image is superior to any of the half side by side or over under by a long shot. It would be nice if there were other playback options, as Stereoscopic player is not exactly cheap. Also the audio setup options leave much to be desired.
Would be very interested in hearing about successful 3D playback of these frame packed rips by any other player.
-Jeff
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
Hello, Ive got an Egreat R200s mediaplayer and everything Ive ripped with MakeMkv works fine,incl. 3D frame packed videos.Hope I could help.
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spazzman90
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:20 pm
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
I was curious about your setup so I did some investigating. Looks like you should be able to get proper 3D output from MAD VR and JRiver. You don't say what video card you have. There is a setting in the MadVR settings to specify proper 3D output. Found some great information regarding settings.
3D playback requires three ingredients:
enable stereo 3d playback is checked in the madVR control panel (rendering -> stereo 3d);
A 3D decoder is installed (LAV Filters 0.68+ with 3D software decoder installation selected);
A 3D-capable display is used (with its 3D mode enabled).
The display type determines the way 3D images are displayed:
Active 3D TV: The left and right eye images are alternated.
Passive 3D TV: The left eye and right eye images are shown on the same frame.
Active 3D TVs display 3D content in frame-sequential format, where the left eye and right eye images are separated and alternated. This is done 48 times per second or 24 times per eye. Battery-powered 3D glasses use active shutters to open and close each eye in time with the image on-screen.
Passive 3D TVs are limited to showing a single image, which interweaves each eye onto a single frame. The display and 3D glasses use a polarizing filter, where only the portions of the screen meant for each eye are visible.
auto
The default output format is frame-packed 3D Blu-ray. The output is an extra-tall (1920 x 2205 - with padding) frame containing the left eye and right eye images stacked on top of each other at full resolution. A display will convert this output.
auto – (HDMI 1.4+, Windows 8+ & Display with HDMI 1.4+): Receives the full resolution, frame-packed output. On an active 3D display, each frame is split and shown sequentially. A passive 3D display interweaves the two images as a single image.
auto – (HDMI 1.3, Windows+ & Display with HDMI 1.3): Receives a downconverted, half side-by-side format. On an active 3D display, each frame is split, upscaled and shown sequentially. A passive 3D display upscales the two images and combines them as a single frame.
It is possible to override this behavior by selecting a specific 3D format.
etc etc...
3D playback requires three ingredients:
enable stereo 3d playback is checked in the madVR control panel (rendering -> stereo 3d);
A 3D decoder is installed (LAV Filters 0.68+ with 3D software decoder installation selected);
A 3D-capable display is used (with its 3D mode enabled).
The display type determines the way 3D images are displayed:
Active 3D TV: The left and right eye images are alternated.
Passive 3D TV: The left eye and right eye images are shown on the same frame.
Active 3D TVs display 3D content in frame-sequential format, where the left eye and right eye images are separated and alternated. This is done 48 times per second or 24 times per eye. Battery-powered 3D glasses use active shutters to open and close each eye in time with the image on-screen.
Passive 3D TVs are limited to showing a single image, which interweaves each eye onto a single frame. The display and 3D glasses use a polarizing filter, where only the portions of the screen meant for each eye are visible.
auto
The default output format is frame-packed 3D Blu-ray. The output is an extra-tall (1920 x 2205 - with padding) frame containing the left eye and right eye images stacked on top of each other at full resolution. A display will convert this output.
auto – (HDMI 1.4+, Windows 8+ & Display with HDMI 1.4+): Receives the full resolution, frame-packed output. On an active 3D display, each frame is split and shown sequentially. A passive 3D display interweaves the two images as a single image.
auto – (HDMI 1.3, Windows+ & Display with HDMI 1.3): Receives a downconverted, half side-by-side format. On an active 3D display, each frame is split, upscaled and shown sequentially. A passive 3D display upscales the two images and combines them as a single frame.
It is possible to override this behavior by selecting a specific 3D format.
etc etc...
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CountryBumkin
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:03 pm
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
Thanks for the explanation Spazz.
This is all still a little confusing to me.
I can get 3D to play, but it always starts in SBS mode. I'm trying to figure out how, or what, makes an mkv movie start playing in SBS or frame packed or T/B. Is there something in the mkv file header that tells the TV how to display the file, or does the TV make the decision based one the contents of the mkv file?
Can one tell by looking at the BD rip (mkv or m2ts file) if it is a frame packed or SBS or T/B format?
When my TV (a Samsung 64F8500) is sent a 3D movie rip from my HTPC computer (NVidia GTX750Ti) through my AVR (a Denon AVR-X4200W) all with hdmi cabling, the TV "starts showing" the movie as "two movie frames side by side", then I need to use the TV's remote to select 3D>SBS mode".
I want the TV to start playing the movie in 3d automatically, without my having to manually switch to SBS mode.
Is this caused by the mkv file missing some info, the HTPC/graphics card setup, the TV setup/3d-detection, or something else?
If I play a 3D BD movie (physical disk) with my Samsung BD player (though AVR), the 3D movie starts in 3d correctly, I don't have to do anything. It's just the 3D rips from my HTPC that have a problem.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
UPDATE: I found this informative post at another site (for anyone interested).
Q: Is there an easy way to merge multiply 3D BluRays with the SIFF Format?
What's so special with this SSIF files? All I know is that these "Frame packed" things are 3840*1080 pixel pictures that are send to a TV/Beamer etc. so that they contain 2 images one for the right and the other for the left eye. What is SBS ? is this full HD for the left and the right eye or does SBS only contains half of a Full HD Image for the left and the other for the right eye?
A: The special thing about them is that they don't really exist. They are purely references to the left eye stream with some other info to adapt to the right eye. If you'll look at the sizes you'll see that when you check the size of the STREAM folder on such a disc it's more than the disc can actually hold (a BD50 can maximum hold 45.5GB), however with ssif this is often 1.5-2x that size. That's why it's imperative that when ripping a 3D disc you must rip it to ISO to keep the structure intact, if you rip a 3D ssif disc to folder the folder size doubles as the those virtual ssif files become real. Resulting in a size too big to shrink back down to SL to burn.
The complexity of SSIF makes it also more difficult to add full disc processing support.
SBS = Side By Side. which can come in 2 ways. Full HD and the more common Half-SBS. Meaning that on the TV the image is squashed horizontally to 960*1080 with 2 near identical frames next to each other. One for each eye. When you tell the display device it's 3D SBS it interprets the video and outputs it to your glasses back as 1920*1080 full hd. Frame packed aren't always 3840*1080, a more common is the standard 1920*1080 I believe but where frames are alternated like Frame 1: left eye, frame 2 right eye, frame 3: left eye, frame 4: right eye ...
This is all still a little confusing to me.
I can get 3D to play, but it always starts in SBS mode. I'm trying to figure out how, or what, makes an mkv movie start playing in SBS or frame packed or T/B. Is there something in the mkv file header that tells the TV how to display the file, or does the TV make the decision based one the contents of the mkv file?
Can one tell by looking at the BD rip (mkv or m2ts file) if it is a frame packed or SBS or T/B format?
When my TV (a Samsung 64F8500) is sent a 3D movie rip from my HTPC computer (NVidia GTX750Ti) through my AVR (a Denon AVR-X4200W) all with hdmi cabling, the TV "starts showing" the movie as "two movie frames side by side", then I need to use the TV's remote to select 3D>SBS mode".
I want the TV to start playing the movie in 3d automatically, without my having to manually switch to SBS mode.
Is this caused by the mkv file missing some info, the HTPC/graphics card setup, the TV setup/3d-detection, or something else?
If I play a 3D BD movie (physical disk) with my Samsung BD player (though AVR), the 3D movie starts in 3d correctly, I don't have to do anything. It's just the 3D rips from my HTPC that have a problem.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
UPDATE: I found this informative post at another site (for anyone interested).
Q: Is there an easy way to merge multiply 3D BluRays with the SIFF Format?
What's so special with this SSIF files? All I know is that these "Frame packed" things are 3840*1080 pixel pictures that are send to a TV/Beamer etc. so that they contain 2 images one for the right and the other for the left eye. What is SBS ? is this full HD for the left and the right eye or does SBS only contains half of a Full HD Image for the left and the other for the right eye?
A: The special thing about them is that they don't really exist. They are purely references to the left eye stream with some other info to adapt to the right eye. If you'll look at the sizes you'll see that when you check the size of the STREAM folder on such a disc it's more than the disc can actually hold (a BD50 can maximum hold 45.5GB), however with ssif this is often 1.5-2x that size. That's why it's imperative that when ripping a 3D disc you must rip it to ISO to keep the structure intact, if you rip a 3D ssif disc to folder the folder size doubles as the those virtual ssif files become real. Resulting in a size too big to shrink back down to SL to burn.
The complexity of SSIF makes it also more difficult to add full disc processing support.
SBS = Side By Side. which can come in 2 ways. Full HD and the more common Half-SBS. Meaning that on the TV the image is squashed horizontally to 960*1080 with 2 near identical frames next to each other. One for each eye. When you tell the display device it's 3D SBS it interprets the video and outputs it to your glasses back as 1920*1080 full hd. Frame packed aren't always 3840*1080, a more common is the standard 1920*1080 I believe but where frames are alternated like Frame 1: left eye, frame 2 right eye, frame 3: left eye, frame 4: right eye ...
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
the Mede8er X3D palyers play frame packed MKV perfectly!CountryBumkin wrote:All of the movie-only 3D BD rips I have made with makMKV start playback in my JRiver Media Center player (using madVR) to my 3D TV as Side-by-Side. Then I have to manually switch my TV to 3D "SBS" mode.
I'm not fully understand all of this 3D technology (and I've been Googling/reading on this for a while now). From what I understand, "frame packed" is best because it provides full resolution to each eye. Whereas Side-by-Side (SBS) and Over-Under (O/U) or Top-Bottom (T/B) only provide half resolution to each eye. I've read that the BD movies are created (video stored) in SBS or O/U (T/B) but the player/renderer determines whether it is sent to display as "frame packed" or SBS or O/U. I'm confused on this part. I would like to have the movies play as Frame packed to get the highest resolution.
Can this be done with using mkv rip?
Is it something coded in the mkv format/header that determines what is sent to display - or is it up to something outside of the movie file?
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spazzman90
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:20 pm
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
It's super awesome to hear that standalone players are indeed able to properly handle and playback these files. Does anybody have any other Windows based solutions?
Sorry Country, I should have been a little more specific.....
Mad VR works similarly to the program I am using (Stereoscopic player) in that you can specifiy the type of output on a 3D file. 3D files have numerous types of ways they can be stored. Side by side, over under, alternating fields, Left and right files, and of course what we are talking about frame packed. Your tv most likely will not handle all of these natively, therefore you need to specify the output on your player to make sure all of these different types get output in a way your tv can understand. Side by side (up to 1080p) is an easy way to send output your tv. Most any tv can accept it, and other components can pass it because it just appears as a normal 1080p signal to them. To send a full 3D image and have that trigger turn on the 3D in your tv, you must specify it in your madvr settings. Looking at madvr settings, there are 3 auto settings for 3D format output. Whatever auto setting it is on, change it to auto (HDMI 1.4+). It should "upconvert" any half side by side or any other 3D files you have. Dont know this for a fact, but the Stereoscopic player I am using does do this no problems.
I should mention that if you are using Windows 10 you should have a 3D slider option in your advanced display settings before attempting any of this. If it is there, no need to mess with it. But it means you should be safe to proceed with 3D apps. If its not there, it is unlikely you will be able to output full 3D. This could be a limitation of your video card, drivers, cabling, or anything else in the chain.
All for now, good luck.
-spazz
Sorry Country, I should have been a little more specific.....
Mad VR works similarly to the program I am using (Stereoscopic player) in that you can specifiy the type of output on a 3D file. 3D files have numerous types of ways they can be stored. Side by side, over under, alternating fields, Left and right files, and of course what we are talking about frame packed. Your tv most likely will not handle all of these natively, therefore you need to specify the output on your player to make sure all of these different types get output in a way your tv can understand. Side by side (up to 1080p) is an easy way to send output your tv. Most any tv can accept it, and other components can pass it because it just appears as a normal 1080p signal to them. To send a full 3D image and have that trigger turn on the 3D in your tv, you must specify it in your madvr settings. Looking at madvr settings, there are 3 auto settings for 3D format output. Whatever auto setting it is on, change it to auto (HDMI 1.4+). It should "upconvert" any half side by side or any other 3D files you have. Dont know this for a fact, but the Stereoscopic player I am using does do this no problems.
I should mention that if you are using Windows 10 you should have a 3D slider option in your advanced display settings before attempting any of this. If it is there, no need to mess with it. But it means you should be safe to proceed with 3D apps. If its not there, it is unlikely you will be able to output full 3D. This could be a limitation of your video card, drivers, cabling, or anything else in the chain.
All for now, good luck.
-spazz
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Umang87878
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:11 am
- Contact:
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
Hello, Ive got an Egreat R200s mediaplayer and everything Ive ripped with MakeMkv works fine,incl. 3D frame packed videos.
Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
Is that unit something you can still purchase somewhere? It looks like it's been discontinued, like so many other similar units.
MakeMKV Frequently Asked Questions
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How to aid in finding the answer to your problem: Activating Debug Logging
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croweyes1121
- Posts: 11
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Re: Can a 3D movie ripped with mkv playback as frame packed?
You can rip a 3D Blu-ray to something like a HDD or SSD, plug that in via USB, and play back the frame-packed 3D Blu-ray on your standalone player on your 3DTV. This is easy as hell, but PICKY as hell. SO easy in fact that I couldn't believe it was something so simple, but I've tested this now with several discs, and it has worked every time.
1. Rip just the movie file with MakeMKV, and make sure you check the MVC video stream. All of that we knew...
2. Open the resulting MKV file with tsmuxer and export to m2ts. Now - HERE'S the VITAL step that makes the file work...when you load up the MKV file into tsmuxer, the MVC video is in Position 1 by default. You MUST highlight the MVC video and move it down to Position 2. THAT'S IT. That's the whole damned problem. I don't know why this is a thing, but it is. Once you get your m2ts file, just throw it on your USB drive, and your player will play it back just like a 3D Blu-ray disc, auto-detecting the 3D signal and all. Hope this helps!
1. Rip just the movie file with MakeMKV, and make sure you check the MVC video stream. All of that we knew...
2. Open the resulting MKV file with tsmuxer and export to m2ts. Now - HERE'S the VITAL step that makes the file work...when you load up the MKV file into tsmuxer, the MVC video is in Position 1 by default. You MUST highlight the MVC video and move it down to Position 2. THAT'S IT. That's the whole damned problem. I don't know why this is a thing, but it is. Once you get your m2ts file, just throw it on your USB drive, and your player will play it back just like a 3D Blu-ray disc, auto-detecting the 3D signal and all. Hope this helps!