LibreDrive for normal/non-UHD blu-rays?

[Rojma]

I am trying to understand how LibreDrive is related to normal/non-UHD Blu-rays. I know LibreDrive is necessary to rip UHD discs. However, I have two non-UHD stock Blu-ray drives that have never been flashed and aren't LibreDrive enabled. They rip normal non-UHD Blu-rays without issue. Occasionally I get one that I can't rip because the key is unknown, but usually downloading the latest SDF/KeyDB file fixes the issue. My question is how is LibreDrive used with normal non-UHD Blu-ray discs, if at all?

The main reason I ask is because I am seeing people buy Pioneer drives that are non-UHD capable (with no promise of UHD cross flashing) who are flashing their drives to be LibreDrive capable. What is the purpose of flashing a non-UHD drive to be LibreDrive capable?

[MartyMcNuts]

I am trying to understand how LibreDrive is related to normal/non-UHD Blu-rays. I know LibreDrive is necessary to rip UHD discs. However, I have two non-UHD stock Blu-ray drives that have never been flashed and aren't LibreDrive enabled. They rip normal non-UHD Blu-rays without issue. Occasionally I get one that I can't rip because the key is unknown, but usually downloading the latest SDF/KeyDB file fixes the issue. My question is how is LibreDrive used with normal non-UHD Blu-ray discs, if at all?

The main reason I ask is because I am seeing people buy Pioneer drives that are non-UHD capable (with no promise of UHD cross flashing) who are flashing their drives to be LibreDrive capable. What is the purpose of flashing a non-UHD drive to be LibreDrive capable?

Libredrive is helpful for normal blu-ray discs as it allows the drive to continue being used to rip discs even if the certificate get's revoked by a newer AACS revision.

[Rojma]

Libredrive is helpful for normal blu-ray discs as it allows the drive to continue being used to rip discs even if the certificate get's revoked by a newer AACS revision.

Ok makes sense, but would dowloading the latest SDF/KeyDB also solve that problem without needing LibreDrive?

[MartyMcNuts]

Libredrive is helpful for normal blu-ray discs as it allows the drive to continue being used to rip discs even if the certificate get's revoked by a newer AACS revision.

Ok makes sense, but would dowloading the latest SDF/KeyDB also solve that problem without needing LibreDrive?

SDF and KeyDB have nothing to do with AACS. It's the AACS revision on the disc that revokes certificates as soon as the disc is initialized by the OS.

[Rojma]

SDF and KeyDB have nothing to do with AACS. It's the AACS revision on the disc that revokes certificates as soon as the disc is initialized by the OS.

Ok I apparently don't understand the whole end to end process (nor did I ever claim I did! ), but this is why I ask these questions. So, I have been using these non-Libre drives on the newest Blu-ray disks for years and have seen no ill effect. Is the revokation of certificates something that theoretically can happen but doesn't happen often, or is is it something that happens often? What symptomps would I have if certificates were revoked? All I am doing is ripping disks to ISO backups with MakeMKV. I don't ever play them with player software on my Windows/Linux (Unraid) devices.

[MartyMcNuts]

SDF and KeyDB have nothing to do with AACS. It's the AACS revision on the disc that revokes certificates as soon as the disc is initialized by the OS.

Ok I apparently don't understand the whole end to end process (nor did I ever claim I did! ), but this is why I ask these questions. So, I have been using these non-Libre drives on the newest Blu-ray disks for years and have seen no ill effect. Is the revokation of certificates something that theoretically can happen but doesn't happen often, or is is it something that happens often? What symptomps would I have if certificates were revoked? All I am doing is ripping disks to ISO backups with MakeMKV. I don't ever play them with player software on my Windows/Linux (Unraid) devices.

A new AACS revision happens as required. It used to happen quite frequently back when blu-ray was newer but these days, more like once or twice a year. Playing the discs means nothing. A disc containing a newer AACS revision than what the drive has ever seen will automatically update the revoked certificate list as soon as you insert the disc. No need for any software to read the disc for this to happen.

Without having libredrive enabled, if your drive is revoked, you won't be able to use it to rip discs until a new MakeMKV version is released.

MakeMKV does not yet natively support AACS v82, whihch has been around since about the start of 2025 so as long as you don't try to rip any new blu-ray discs that were released in the past 12 months you should be fine.

[Rojma]

A new AACS revision happens as required. It used to happen quite frequently back when blu-ray was newer but these days, more like once or twice a year. Playing the discs means nothing. A disc containing a newer AACS revision than what the drive has ever seen will automatically update the revoked certificate list as soon as you insert the disc. No need for any software to read the disc for this to happen.

Without having libredrive enabled, if your drive is revoked, you won't be able to use it to rip discs until a new MakeMKV version is released.

MakeMKV does not yet natively support AACS v82, whihch has been around since about the start of 2025 so as long as you don't try to rip any new blu-ray discs that were released in the past 12 months you should be fine.

Thanks. I think I understand now. I think I recently ran into this problem. I updated the SDF and KeyDB files and I was then able to rip the disc so I assumed that fixed it, but I may have just tried ripping it on a different drive that was LibreDrive enabled. It was a couple days between failure and success so I may have very well tried on a different Libre enabled drive and just didn't realize that trying on a different drive is what fixed it. I'm going to try and track down what disc it was and then try to rerip on the non-LibreDrive drive to confirm.

[MartyMcNuts]

A new AACS revision happens as required. It used to happen quite frequently back when blu-ray was newer but these days, more like once or twice a year. Playing the discs means nothing. A disc containing a newer AACS revision than what the drive has ever seen will automatically update the revoked certificate list as soon as you insert the disc. No need for any software to read the disc for this to happen.

Without having libredrive enabled, if your drive is revoked, you won't be able to use it to rip discs until a new MakeMKV version is released.

MakeMKV does not yet natively support AACS v82, whihch has been around since about the start of 2025 so as long as you don't try to rip any new blu-ray discs that were released in the past 12 months you should be fine.

Thanks. I think I understand now. I think I recently ran into this problem. I updated the SDF and KeyDB files and I was then able to rip the disc so I assumed that fixed it, but I may have just tried ripping it on a different drive that was LibreDrive enabled. It was a couple days between failure and success so I may have very well tried on a different Libre enabled drive and just didn't realize that trying on a different drive is what fixed it. I'm going to try and track down what disc it was and then try to rerip on the non-LibreDrive drive to confirm.

Good to know you got the disc to rip but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning SDF. sdf.bin has nothing to do with disc decryption. MakeMKV uses SDF to know what drive models have libredrive enabled. MakeMKV's HK (hashed keys) database is what allows the application to decrypt discs. So as far as disc decryption goes, HK and the public KeyDB are the 2 things used.

[keydb_helper]

What symptomps would I have if certificates were revoked? All I am doing is ripping disks to ISO backups with MakeMKV.

If you were using a non-LibreDrive Blu-ray drive made after 2008-2009 and there were no available unrevoked host certificates, you would not be able to backup any bus encrypted enabled discs. This is a consideration for both AACS 1.0 (1080p) and AACS 2.x (2160p/UHD). A valid, unrevoked host certificate is required to calculate the read data key (RDK) used to produce even a protected ISO backup file. Without such a host certificate your ISO file would be absolutely unusable.

Good to know you got the disc to rip but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning SDF. sdf.bin has nothing to do with disc decryption. MakeMKV uses SDF to know what drive models have libredrive enabled. MakeMKV's HK (hashed keys) database is what allows the application to decrypt discs. So as far as disc decryption goes, HK and the public KeyDB are the 2 things used.

The SDF.bin file is absolutely essential for disc decryption.

SDF.bin contains the LibreDrive microcode (small code blobs) which run on the processor inside your disc drive. These code blobs are used to perform actions such as disabling bus encryption or reading otherwise protected disc metadata like the volume ID.

If it weren't for the SDF.bin file it wouldn't be possible to generate disc dump files with the information required to derive disc keys. And even if you did have the disc specific title keys, you wouldn't be able to utilise them to decrypt your discs without using SDF.bin to disable bus encryption.

[Rojma]

Good to know you got the disc to rip but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning SDF. sdf.bin has nothing to do with disc decryption. MakeMKV uses SDF to know what drive models have libredrive enabled. MakeMKV's HK (hashed keys) database is what allows the application to decrypt discs. So as far as disc decryption goes, HK and the public KeyDB are the 2 things used.

Sorry I was referring to the SDF download as when it also downloads keys directly from MakeMKV vs. using the KeyDB file. I should have just said MakeMKV key download.

[Rojma]

If you were using a non-LibreDrive Blu-ray drive made after 2008-2009 and there were no available unrevoked host certificates, you would not be able to backup any bus encrypted enabled discs. This is a consideration for both AACS 1.0 (1080p) and AACS 2.x (2160p/UHD). A valid, unrevoked host certificate is required to calculate the read data key (RDK) used to produce even a protected ISO backup file. Without such a host certificate your ISO file would be absolutely unusable.

Well, I don't know what I am doing right (or wrong?) but using these two non-Libre USB Blu-Ray drives I have been able to rip literally hundreds of Blu-rays as decrypted ISOs. I have also verified that I can mount and play the ISOs after ripping them. I have also been able rip to MKV from the ISO using MakeMV and play the .m2ts files in the ISO. They are definitely decrypted.

There was one exception where I couldn't rip a disc. If I recall correctly, it gave me an error about the key being unknown. I thought it was weird because I had never seen that with a normal Blu-ray before - just with UHDs.

Previously in this thread I couldn't remember what title it was, but I finally remembered that it was the Lilo and Stich (2025) Blu-ray when it first came out. I just tried that same disc on both my non-Libre Blu-ray drives and MakeMKV now seems to be able to read/decode the disks without issue. Something must have changed/updated since I first tried (possibly the keys being downloaded).

For reference, here are the two drives' info with that disc in the drive:

Drive 1
Drive Information
OS device name: /dev/sr3
Current profile: BD-ROM
Manufacturer: TSSTcorp
Product: BDDVDW SE-506BB
Revision: TS00
Serial number: R90K6GWCC005T2
Bus encryption flags: 1F
Highest AACS version: 82

LibreDrive Information
Status: Possible, not yet enabled
Drive platform: MT1939
Harware support: Yes
Firmware support: No
Firmware type: Original (unpatched)
Firmware version: 11.13
DVD all regions: Possible, not yet enabled
BD raw data read: Possible, not yet enabled
BD raw metadata read: Possible, not yet enabled
Unrestricted read speed: Possible, not yet enabled

Disc Information
Label: LILO_AND_STITCH_2025
Timestamp: 2025-07-03 14:18:01
Protection: AACS v81
Data capacity: 39.98 Gb
Disc type: BD-ROM
Number of layers: 2
Channel bit length: 74,5 nm (25.0 GB max. per layer)


Drive 2
Drive Information
OS device name: I:
Current profile: BD-ROM
Manufacturer: HL-DT-ST
Product: BDDVDRW CT21N
Revision: 1.00
Serial number: K0ZA1FM5541
Highest AACS version: 81

Disc Information
Label: LILO_AND_STITCH_2025
Timestamp: 2025-07-03 14:18:01
Protection: AACS v81
Data capacity: 39.98 Gb
Disc type: BD-ROM
Number of layers: 2
Channel bit length: 74,5 nm (25.0 GB max. per layer)


I did notice how the second drive doesn't show LibreDrive Information.

I also noticed that AACS is at version 81, but not 82 which is where I might run into problems. I'm not sure if I have any disc that has AACS 82. I will keep an eye out going forward so I can properly test.

Part of the reason for me wanting to know how all this works is because of the scarcity of UHD drives now days, I want to limit ripping only UHD discs on the UHD drives to minimize their use and prolong their life. Everything else I would like to offload to these non-Libre drives.

[MartyMcNuts]

What symptomps would I have if certificates were revoked? All I am doing is ripping disks to ISO backups with MakeMKV.

If you were using a non-LibreDrive Blu-ray drive made after 2008-2009 and there were no available unrevoked host certificates, you would not be able to backup any bus encrypted enabled discs. This is a consideration for both AACS 1.0 (1080p) and AACS 2.x (2160p/UHD). A valid, unrevoked host certificate is required to calculate the read data key (RDK) used to produce even a protected ISO backup file. Without such a host certificate your ISO file would be absolutely unusable.

Good to know you got the disc to rip but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning SDF. sdf.bin has nothing to do with disc decryption. MakeMKV uses SDF to know what drive models have libredrive enabled. MakeMKV's HK (hashed keys) database is what allows the application to decrypt discs. So as far as disc decryption goes, HK and the public KeyDB are the 2 things used.

The SDF.bin file is absolutely essential for disc decryption.

SDF.bin contains the LibreDrive microcode (small code blobs) which run on the processor inside your disc drive. These code blobs are used to perform actions such as disabling bus encryption or reading otherwise protected disc metadata like the volume ID.

If it weren't for the SDF.bin file it wouldn't be possible to generate disc dump files with the information required to derive disc keys. And even if you did have the disc specific title keys, you wouldn't be able to utilise them to decrypt your discs without using SDF.bin to disable bus encryption.

Agree to disagree with you there.

Yes, SDF.bin contains the libredrive code and is needed for a drive to be UHD capable but is not actually part of the AACS decryption process. In this thread, Rojma is talking about standard blu-ray discs so libredrive is not really essential to this discussion, unless revoked. HK is what MakeMKV requires for any AACS v82 discs and can natively decrypt any prior AACS revisions.

[keydb_helper]

Well, I don't know what I am doing right (or wrong?) but using these two non-Libre USB Blu-Ray drives I have been able to rip literally hundreds of Blu-rays as decrypted ISOs.

It is not unusual that you have been able to rip the majority of your collection. Most AACS 1.0 (1080p) Blu-ray discs are not bus encrypted enabled (BEE), so they can be readily dumped to a protected ISO file. For the minority of bus encrypted enabled discs, ripping tools like MakeMKV have consistently had valid, unrevoked AACS 1.0 host certificates for the past 10-15 years.

But if tools such as MakeMKV no longer have access to valid host certificates, your non-LibreDrive drives will not be able to backup bus encrypted enabled discs once their internal host revocation list has been updated. This would apply to all AACS revisions.

I wasn't trying to comment on the plausibility of your experience, but rather explain the potential complications facing non-LibreDrive drives in the future - even for AACS 1.0.