exxxx wrote: ↑Thu Jun 19, 2025 3:18 am
if a 13 model is worth the price for functionality and not just rarity. What do these more expensive models have that will actually effect my experience as a regular user versus sticking with the 12's I already purchased.
Well, it's not quite as simple. The 12 you have is a
212, not an
S12. And the 13s you are comparing against are
S13s.
So what was said elsewhere in this thread applies, and almost everything said is relevant to some part of that comparison. The information is mostly all there, you're not piecing it together. So there are two relevant comparisons. The difference between
2XX versus
SXX, and the difference between 12 vs 13.
The 12 vs 13 is mostly hype. There wasn't, as far as I can see, a lot done between those generations. I suspect the song and dance Pioneer did was just a way to justify a price hike. That said, the prices on the old 12 line didn't reflect the actual qualitative difference between Pioneers and other brands, so the price increase on the 13 line was not out of spec with the quality difference between the Pioneers and everyone else. Plextor, back in 2012, may have come close to Pioneer in quality. But they gave up in 2014 and today no one else comes close to a Pioneer. Right now a Pioneer is to LG what LG is to a generic Matsu-shit-a.
The 2
XX vs S
XX is a very real difference. You get two major things in that. The plastic vs glass lens, and the firmware.
2XX:
Plastic lens: Plastic has a higher spherical aberration (affecting focal accuracy especially in multi-layer), a higher coefficient of thermal expansion (meaning the focus drifts more with temperature changes), and the manufacturing process (injection molding vs grinding) means loser tolerances all around. Also they are far more subject to scratching. Pioneer drives are fairly dust resistant, but not dust proof and the act of cleaning the lenses, even carefully, can leave microscratches.
2XX Firmware: Non-UHD firmware. Can be "upgraded" with a firmware that will make it think it's an S
XX, but that will affect the laser. Many people do it, but you end up with a device that focuses based on the refractive index of the glass lens, instead of the plastic lens. They are not identical, and you end up with inferior burns. They will read mostly as well, so if you are just ripping with them it's not a huge deal. But a genuine S
XX will produce better burns than a 2XX made to think it's an S
XX. Also, and this burns my bacon a little, the people here who have the firmware will want to soak you $$$ for handing over bootlegged copies. So factor that cost into making a 2XX UHD-ready.
SXX:
Glass lens: Glass has lower spherical aberration, a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, and they are ground rather than molded. SXX's produce the best burns in the world. They are far more resilient against scratches.
SXX Firmware: S
XXs are UHD-ready from the get-go, and you don't have to make them something they are not to get that. A post-2022 firmware will not allow them to work with LibreDrive microcode, so if you buy somewhere else on the hopes that you can use them for ripping, factor that in. Mike Admin's announcement that all Pioneer's will be flashable in the future doesn't necessarily mean flashable for free. No one yet knows what this means, it may mean the people with the firmwares will still try and soak you real $$$ for the privelege of bootlegging a firmware. It may be that it ends up like the LG firmwares, open and distributed to all. We don't know yet. But factor that into the cost analysis when you look at the price of getting a drive you know will be LibreDrive ready today.
Bottom line, an S13 is superior to your 212 not because it's a 13, but because it's an S. I would personally rather have an S
XX vs a 2
XX and have put my money where my mouth is. I have a BDR-X13JBK, and have a BDR-S13UBK coming in tomorrow. I also have a BDR-S11JBK with a 2018 firmware coming in, also possibly tomorrow. I bought my original BDR-X13JBK back when I didn't think it would ever operate as a Blu-Ray ripper, simply because I wanted an optical drive that produced the best burns possible. I ordered it a week before Pioneer's announcement, and thank my lucky stars I did. The other two drives, the S13UBK I ordered as a spare, and the S11JBK I ordered because it I want a Pioneer ripper.
