www.makemkv.com

Hi there. I dished out some money for the Lawrence of Arabia 4K steelbook that's coming out soon (in my region) and with that I began to look for a 4K-capable optical drive. This thread suggests that UHD playback and ripping is a whole different beast from regular Blu-Ray, which already was quite a hassle when I first got into it some 5 years ago. I've read that guide probably 4 times by now but there are a few questions I still have that I haven't been able to find conclusive answers for. I would appreciate any answers before I take the plunge on a €100+ device.

The one I'm thinking of getting is ASUS BW-16D1HT.
1. Is firmware flashing necessary for ripping specifically, or for playback in general? Suppose I had a bog-standard Windows PC, fairly recent hardware and software, had one of them "official" players like PowerDVD, if I popped a 4K disk into my new drive, would it play with that setup, or would it not?
2. The ASUS webpage mentions BD-XL support without stating specifically 4K UHD support, even though physically they're the same thing as far as I know. But UHDs include a lot of DRM that requires some CPU stuff and some HDMI nonsense and all that, so do they not advertise UHD support because it's a much more tricky matter?
3. I'm planning to buy an ASUS drive because, frankly, I used to have an ASUS DVD player, then upgraded to an ASUS Blu-Ray player, so out of familiarity I'd like to stick with ASUS for the 4K upgrade. However, the flashing guide says Pioneer drives are much better than LG and ASUS drives. Better how? It either reads a disc or it doesn't, no? And Pioneer seems quite tricky with whatever firmware situation they've got going on (great idea to edit the post with updates yet not provide any dates on the matter...). Furthermore, ASUS is actually available here. I just checked several hardware stores and even Pioneer's official website and there isn't a single Blu-Ray player, internal or external, available for sale. If I were to go with something else, it'd probably have to be from a flasher reseller here and those drives tend to be in the 150-250 euro range, while the BW-16D1HT costs only around 90. So are they actually worth it?

EDIT: While waiting for this post to get approved I scoured the forums some more and found that, if I don't go with BW-16D1HT, I would probably go with Verbatim 43888 since it's easy to get and quite cheap, and from what I hear, quite good. Opinions on that?

Doing even more digging, I came to realize that my current drive, ASUS BC-12D2HT, is in fact capable of reading BD-XL discs. I managed to flash BD-16D1HT firmware on it to make it LibreDrive, and I've just managed to rip my first 4K UHD disc. The drive makes nasty noises for a good while and takes forever to read the disc, but once it does, it goes through the ripping process without any issues.

Doing official playback of a UHD disc with official software is kind of a pain. It requires, among other things, an Intel CPU that supports SGX. Intel removed SGX from their chips starting with the 11th gen CPUs.

This leaves you with unofficial UHD disc playback, which could work, although I don't have a lot of experience with it.

Or, in my view, the easiest option, which is just to rip the disc and watch the resulting .mkv file.

My experience with my Pioneer drives are that they do a better job of reading marginal discs. Things that my LG or ASUS drive stumble on, my Pioneer seems to succeed at. Not always of course, but often.
Some of the sellers on this forum have said that the failure rate of LG and ASUS drives changed for the worse during the pandemic. The failure rate of Pioneer drives is much lower in their experience. Unfortunately it seems the Verbatim 43888 has recently had some hardware substitutions that reduce its reliability as well. https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=147839#p147839

From a couple of posts I took that the Verbatim 43888 is 1) very power hungry 2) the enclosure electronics is not very robust while the internal Pioneer UD04 drive doesn't seem to have issues.

Coopervid wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:44 pm

From a couple of posts I took that the Verbatim 43888 is 1) very power hungry 2) the enclosure electronics is not very robust while the internal Pioneer UD04 drive doesn't seem to have issues.

That's what I understood as well.

dcoke22 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:39 pm

Coopervid wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:44 pm

From a couple of posts I took that the Verbatim 43888 is 1) very power hungry 2) the enclosure electronics is not very robust while the internal Pioneer UD04 drive doesn't seem to have issues.

That's what I understood as well.

Hello dcoke22,

Having encountered issues with the BDR-UD04, particularly in conjunction with DBpoweramp, it's apparent that the drive struggles to read drives accurately.

The challenge becomes glaring when processing audio CDs, as evidenced by a significant number of failed checksums. Even when using the standalone BDR-UD04 without the Verbatim Enclosure, similar issues persist. Fortunately, our connections with Pioneer have allowed us to engage in ongoing investigations to identify and address these concerns. It's crucial to note that Pioneer don't seem to be too interested in resolving the playback problems associated with this old model. One thing we do know is that there was changes in hardware, but Pioneer are playing this down. The drives with the new hardware currently experiences periodic crashes. While we can't publicly highlight these challenges to Pioneer in relation to playback of UHD discs we can high light the CD problem in conjuction with DB poweramp.

We have really come to the end of the road with this drive. You know it is quite funny one of the guys in office said the other day, well we can mount the BDR-UD04's on the wall as that is all they seem to be good for at present. The first 300 drives we purchased were okay and did work. The new one have been problematic.

If you look at this forum the problem go right back to 2022.

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... Every-Time

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... 4&p=217580

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... Time/page4

It hard on the forum sometimes. You get a customer he does a lot of research and purchases a drive. To him he wants to post and say my drive is brilliant everyone should buy it, only 99 bucks. People reading the forum take this information in and takes it as gospel.

We have made the right decision not to stock this drive any longer and we will take the hit with the return and honour the warranty to our customers. Look like we were caught with this one and we tested hundreds of discs before we stocked it. You work very hard on this forum supporting customers dcoke22, it is credit to you with all the support you offer customers.

"We've reached a turning point with this drive, and it's become a source of humor in the office someone suggested mounting them on the wall since that's seemingly their current best use.

The initial batch of 300 drives worked fine, but the recent ones have been problematic.If you trace back on this forum, the issues date back to November 2023.

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... 4&p=217580

It's disheartening at times. Customers invest time and effort researching and purchasing a drive, hoping to share a positive experience within weeks of purchasing there new drive. Unfortunately, their enthusiasm can be misleading for others reading the forum. After careful consideration, we've decided to discontinue stocking this troublesome drive. Despite the financial setback from returns, we're committed to honoring warranties for our customers. It seems we were caught off guard despite rigorous testing on hundreds of discs before introducing it to our inventory.To the dedicated forum members like yourself, your unwavering support is commendable. Dealing with forum members concerns is no easy feat, and your efforts are truly a credit to the entire community. Thank you for your ongoing dedication to assisting forum users.

Your expertise shines through in your posts, offering valuable assistance across a diverse range of issues. Without dedicated contributors like you, this forum wouldn't be the thriving community it is today. It's undeniable that people flock here seeking answers and information, contributing to the forum's reputation as the go-to source for MakeMKV-related queries and much more information too.
MakeMKV is the go to forum and people can whinge and complain but at the end of the day it is probably one of the best forums around.

I appreciate your active involvement on the forum and wanted to provide you with an update regarding the ongoing situation with the BDR-UD04. According to the forum's administrator, Spoon from DBpoweramp, there are indications of serious problems associated with this drive.

Your continued contributions make a significant impact on the support and credibility of this forum. Thank you for being an invaluable part of our community."

Anyway food for thought

Asmcom

Thanks asmcom for the detailed report. I will stop to recommend the Verbatim drive. Older ones seem not to be affected and hopefully people who bought it after November 2023 will use it mostly for DVD /BD / UHD rips.

I bought my Verbatim in April 2023 but there is no indication on the casing of a manufacturing date. It has performed very well as an alternative to my internal BD-RE WH14NS40 drive.
Given that my usual approach is to procastinate until thngs are no longer available or effectively over, I think that I could have been lucky this time.

Thanks for the detailed update asmcom. It is a bummer that we've reached the end of the road for the 43888.

It is inevitable that we cannot control the firmware on newly purchased drives unless we use specialist resellers. Given the current”evolution” of firmware on Pioneer drives this is particularly pertinent.
I can’t say that I’m enthused by Verbatim using the same model designation for drives with a completely different hardware platform as they have with the USA and European models. Recommending by model name would seem to now be insufficient.
You might also expect that a major change in components used would justify a new model designation but as the manufacturer would present them as a running change (previously working in the vehicle industry I’m used to that but they do generally record the change point by serial number) rather than what it is, a cost reduction, I’m not surprised.
I’m still hoping that my Verbatim drive, which is not going to have a hard life with me, will continue to operate without problems.

htpc_rookie wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:53 pm

It is inevitable that we cannot control the firmware on newly purchased drives unless we use specialist resellers. Given the current”evolution” of firmware on Pioneer drives this is particularly pertinent.
I can’t say that I’m enthused by Verbatim using the same model designation for drives with a completely different hardware platform as they have with the USA and European models. Recommending by model name would seem to now be insufficient.
You might also expect that a major change in components used would justify a new model designation but as the manufacturer would present them as a running change (previously working in the vehicle industry I’m used to that but they do generally record the change point by serial number) rather than what it is, a cost reduction, I’m not surprised.
I’m still hoping that my Verbatim drive, which is not going to have a hard life with me, will continue to operate without problems.

We hope this message finds you well. We want to clarify that our investigation leads us to believe that the performance issues are not rooted in the Verbatim enclosure, but rather in the BDR-UD04. We've been diligently pursuing this matter, and obtaining the confidential data sheet has proven to be quite challenging. However, we have successfully accessed similar materials in the past, yielding positive results.

Our primary goal is to pinpoint the cause of the subpar performance of the BDR-UD04 model. A glance at the DB Poweramp forum threads reveals a myriad of user concerns. In the last two weeks alone, we've experienced five returns, which is undoubtedly concerning.

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... Every-Time

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... 4&p=217580

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread ... Time/page4


Ideally, the source and inventory list should be meticulously documented with every manufacturing change throughout the process. Unfortunately, we recognize that this isn't always the case in the real world. We've encountered situations in the past, such as the instance two years ago when a seller received a problematic batch of Hitachi WH16N60 drives, specifically affecting the US version and not the EU version. This issue persisted without any noticeable changes in revisions.

Similarly, we faced challenges with Hitachi BU40N drives, where lasers were causing scratches on discs, leaving circular marks. Fortunately, thanks to Billy and Alex's collaborative efforts, we identified and addressed the problem again without any documented revisions or reasons for using different components.

As a community, let's pool our insights and expertise to delve deeper into the current BDR-UD04 situation. Sharing experiences and knowledge can help us address these performance concerns. Your input is invaluable; together, we can contribute to finding a resolution.

Thank you for your attention and collaboration. Our own BU40 is performing brilliantly and has no problems. This particular drive was in the 1st batch.

Best regards,

Asmcom

I picked up a Verbatim 43888 (BDR-UD04) in Jan 2024 from a major AU retailer. Unsure what the manufacture date is.

Have so far managed to successfully back-up 18 x 4K UHD discs, with 3 x failures, for an 86% success rate. The failed 4K UHD discs were brand new and sealed in shrink wrap.

The disc tray feels pretty flimsy, so query how it will hold up long-term. But obviously it's a slimline drive, and it was pretty cheap, so cannot expect too much!

FYI for those interested.

Jimbo21 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:12 am

I picked up a Verbatim 43888 (BDR-UD04) in Jan 2024 from a major AU retailer. Unsure what the manufacture date is.

Have so far managed to successfully back-up 18 x 4K UHD discs, with 3 x failures, for an 86% success rate. The failed 4K UHD discs were brand new and sealed in shrink wrap.

The disc tray feels pretty flimsy, so query how it will hold up long-term. But obviously it's a slimline drive, and it was pretty cheap, so cannot expect too much!

FYI for those interested.

Just in case my experience might help - I had at least 1 (regular) bluray disc which wouldn't rip with this drive over several attempts. Problem went away after I changed to a different usb3 port directly on my deksopt. Initially I had it connected through an extension socket on my keyboard.

Nimras wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 10, 2024 4:22 pm

Jimbo21 wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:12 am

I picked up a Verbatim 43888 (BDR-UD04) in Jan 2024 from a major AU retailer. Unsure what the manufacture date is.

Have so far managed to successfully back-up 18 x 4K UHD discs, with 3 x failures, for an 86% success rate. The failed 4K UHD discs were brand new and sealed in shrink wrap.

The disc tray feels pretty flimsy, so query how it will hold up long-term. But obviously it's a slimline drive, and it was pretty cheap, so cannot expect too much!

FYI for those interested.

Just in case my experience might help - I had at least 1 (regular) bluray disc which wouldn't rip with this drive over several attempts. Problem went away after I changed to a different usb3 port directly on my deksopt. Initially I had it connected through an extension socket on my keyboard.

We have been honest with customers and told them we have not found these drives reliable long-term. We have had seven returns in the last two weeks, and all drives had failed lasers. We recommend you buy the BDR-XS07TS, which is very good value for the price. £136.99 minus 5%= £130.14 plus post.

Asmcom

Coopervid wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:19 pm

Thanks asmcom for the detailed report. I will stop to recommend the Verbatim drive. Older ones seem not to be affected and hopefully people who bought it after November 2023 will use it mostly for DVD /BD / UHD rips.

Thanks, Coopervid, We will keep you updated if there are any changes or new developments.

Asmcom