Comparing Pioneer UHD Models

[Coopervid]

The plastic lens info for 212DBK comes from seller asmcom. Pioneer Europe told him

[Venturer]

I'm the owner of a Pioneer BDR-XS08MB-S. It's the lastest slim "slot-in" Pioneer burner. Do you know if it has a glass or a plastic laser lens?

Thank you!

[Coopervid]

The only one known with a plastic lens is the 212DBK.

[Stingray]

The plastic lens info for 212DBK comes from seller asmcom. Pioneer Europe told him

I think all Pioneers for retail users for the last 10-15 years have plastic lenses. Otherwise it would be item #1 on the pioneer website to show the advantages of the S models. But it shows 2 copper screws on the most advanced S1xJ-X models. Do you believe it's more important than a glass lens? I don't.
I also have 1 Pro model BDR-Pr1EPA and the lenses appear to be the same.
As I wrote before my 15 years old BDR-205BK which made in Japan writes/reads BD-R slightly better than my new BDR-S12J-X made in China (based on LDC/BIS).
And even record with 6x BDR-205BR better than any speed of BDR S08JBK, BDR S12J-X, BDR X12UHD, BDR X13JBK (based on 100+ BD-R recorded in 2024-2025).
If we look at LG/ASUS lineup, there is 1 model that has been producing for more than 10 years. Pioneer by various marketing and technical tricks (firmware code, different design) made it look like it has a lot of models in each generation. Taking into account the fact that big quantity of models can be crossflashed into each other, it is reasonable to conclude that in fact these models are very close to each other.
You also know and I've been written that all options of Pioneer's proprietary utility are better disabled for quality recording. But this utility works with more expensive versions of drives, roughly speaking it is useless and even harmful for high-quality recording. Marketing.
I think because of the lack of growth in this industry Pioneer instead of technical improvement, went the way of marketing changes, like added copper screws (for a few cents) and presented it as very cool and the price did not forget to throw on a couple of dozen dollars.
At the same time, as with other manufacturers, the drives became lighter in weight, there is more plastic inside.

[Coopervid]

The plastic lens info for 212DBK comes from seller asmcom. Pioneer Europe told him

I think all Pioneers for retail users for the last 10-15 years have plastic lenses. Otherwise it would be item #1 on the pioneer website to show the advantages of the S models. But it shows 2 copper screws on the most advanced S1xJ-X models. Do you believe it's more important than a glass lens? I don't.
I also have 1 Pro model BDR-Pr1EPA and the lenses appear to be the same.
As I wrote before my 15 years old BDR-205BK which made in Japan writes/reads BD-R slightly better than my new BDR-S12J-X made in China (based on LDC/BIS).
And even record with 6x BDR-205BR better than any speed of BDR S08JBK, BDR S12J-X, BDR X12UHD, BDR X13JBK (based on 100+ BD-R recorded in 2024-2025).
If we look at LG/ASUS lineup, there is 1 model that has been producing for more than 10 years. Pioneer by various marketing and technical tricks (firmware code, different design) made it look like it has a lot of models in each generation. Taking into account the fact that big quantity of models can be crossflashed into each other, it is reasonable to conclude that in fact these models are very close to each other.
You also know and I've been written that all options of Pioneer's proprietary utility are better disabled for quality recording. But this utility works with more expensive versions of drives, roughly speaking it is useless and even harmful for high-quality recording. Marketing.
I think because of the lack of growth in this industry Pioneer instead of technical improvement, went the way of marketing changes, like added copper screws (for a few cents) and presented it as very cool and the price did not forget to throw on a couple of dozen dollars.
At the same time, as with other manufacturers, the drives became lighter in weight, there is more plastic inside.

I agree with most of your statements about Pioneer. There was just a lot of yaddayadda around almost identical drives. Charge a premium for drives that have all options and cripple the the cheaper ones by firmware. And yes, we also found that the write quality of older and newer 12x and 13x drives is identical. I saw your results for the 205 being better and I think the reason is that newer models have been optimized for cost. So they write just "good enough" compared to the 205.
Regarding the plastic lens of the 212DBK: Asmcom did a lot of testing and found that a crossflashed 212DBK actually writes worse used for multi layer discs than the other 212s and therefore he never sold crossflashed 212DBKs. Another hint that only the 212DBK has a plastic lens is that this drive isn't allowed to burn discs >50 GB.

I also agree with you regarding the Pioneer utility. All these options need to be turned OFF for best recording. Here is a copy what was once posted in the Redfox forum as a tutorial for burning with hardware defect management for multi layer discs. We also stated as you can see to disable all the options that suggest better burn results but actually they make it worse.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=185539&page=19

[Stingray]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=185539&page=19

Thanks, useful guide, I had copy-pasted it from redfox.
I don't watch movies and rarely used it, but it works everything as stated. Also it works with BD-RE with localized defects even with single layer ones.

Honestly, on the last existing Japanese SONY BD-Rs 128Gb did not notice any significant difference, there the main thing is to write on 2x (higher speed -> higher LDC/BIS) and there will be a great scan better than any 100Gb.

[Coopervid]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=185539&page=19

Thanks, useful guide, I had copy-pasted it from redfox.
I don't watch movies and rarely used it, but it works everything as stated. Also it works with BD-RE with localized defects even with single layer ones.

Honestly, on the last existing Japanese SONY BD-Rs 128Gb did not notice any significant difference, there the main thing is to write on 2x (higher speed -> higher LDC/BIS) and there will be a great scan better than any 100Gb.

Most likely old stock. BD production in Japan has ceased and new stock comes from other countries like Taiwan. Verbatims from Japan MEI T02 50GB were also very good. The new Verbatims 50 GB from Taiwan are just bad.

[Stingray]

Most likely old stock. BD production in Japan has ceased and new stock comes from other countries like Taiwan. Verbatims from Japan MEI T02 50GB were also very good. The new Verbatims 50 GB from Taiwan are just bad.

I bought enough SONY RE 100 and R128 during new year sales, after that price significantly increased.
Is far as I know the production fully stopped and no any sources for new RE 100 and R128

[Coopervid]

Most likely old stock. BD production in Japan has ceased and new stock comes from other countries like Taiwan. Verbatims from Japan MEI T02 50GB were also very good. The new Verbatims 50 GB from Taiwan are just bad.

I bought enough SONY RE 100 and R128 during new year sales, after that price significantly increased.
Is far as I know the production fully stopped and no any sources for new RE 100 and R128

I don't burn discs anymore since a couple of years and I also recommend this to others. Store on external HDD and get a media player to play the movies. I use an Oppo clone. It is much more convenient, the cost per GB is equal or less and you reduce the usage time of you drive to extend the lifetime of the laser. So I use my drives just for ripping.