All Pioneer drives will be LibreDrive supported

[MartyMcNuts]

Let me see if I understand correctly. Does this mean that if I have a Pioneer manufactured in 2024 with newer firmware, I will be able to enable Libredrive in the future?

Yeah, sometime in the future.

[coder-golang]

Appreciate this fantastic news - is it possible to get a technical explanation more about what is left to do? how the breakthrough was made, or any kind of coding detail?

And apologies for the annoying question but how much work is left till deploy?

[MartyMcNuts]

Appreciate this fantastic news - is it possible to get a technical explanation more about what is left to do? how the breakthrough was made, or any kind of coding detail?

And apologies for the annoying question but how much work is left till deploy?

No and no idea. It's all hush hush and we will just have to wait. It's been 2+ years so far...

[kapqa]

fresh in the news

https://www.techpowerup.com/336803/pion ... anxi-group

[BrianDW]

Just received THIS:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MT ... =UTF8&th=1

Make MKV reads it as: BD-RE PIONEER BD-RW BDR-UD04 1.14

Rips 4k blu ray out of the box.
However, the AMAZON seller I bought it from is no longer the seller. It is now listed as sold by AMAZON.
I ordered another in hopes it is the same, and not an LG rebrand.

[MrPenguin]

Make MKV reads it as: BD-RE PIONEER BD-RW BDR-UD04 1.14

Yes, it enables LibreDrive out-of-the-box. Unfortunately, it is also very incompatible with KEYDB . However, it is still fine for ripping .

[nicholfd]

Make MKV reads it as: BD-RE PIONEER BD-RW BDR-UD04 1.14

Yes, it enables LibreDrive out-of-the-box. Unfortunately, it is also very incompatible with KEYDB . However, it is still fine for ripping .

Hello,

I don't understand the the significance of "incompatible with KEYDB". For years I've used MakeMKV with my older drives for everything up to/including UHD disks. I've downloaded & read about KeyDB, but have never needed to use it. Can you help me understand what I'm missing or might be missing without using KEYDB/incompatible with KEYDB?

Thanks!

[MrPenguin]

I don't understand the the significance of "incompatible with KEYDB"

KEYDB is an alternative public key database, as compared to MakeMKV's private "hashed keys". You don't need to use KEYDB, but some people choose to help add their disks' keys to KEYDB because - under the right conditions - KEYDB can acquire new keys faster than MakeMKV does.

[nicholfd]

I don't understand the the significance of "incompatible with KEYDB"

KEYDB is an alternative public key database, as compared to MakeMKV's private "hashed keys". You don't need to use KEYDB, but some people choose to help add their disks' keys to KEYDB because - under the right conditions - KEYDB can acquire new keys faster than MakeMKV does.

Thanks for the clarification & details!

[BrianDW]

Make MKV reads it as: BD-RE PIONEER BD-RW BDR-UD04 1.14

Yes, it enables LibreDrive out-of-the-box. Unfortunately, it is also very incompatible with KEYDB . However, it is still fine for ripping .

I don't understand the issue. I download the latest KEYDB before every rip, several times a week on average.
This new verbatim drive just ripped a newly released ARROW video 4k.

[SamuriHL]

Make MKV reads it as: BD-RE PIONEER BD-RW BDR-UD04 1.14

Yes, it enables LibreDrive out-of-the-box. Unfortunately, it is also very incompatible with KEYDB . However, it is still fine for ripping .

I don't understand the issue. I download the latest KEYDB before every rip, several times a week on average.
This new verbatim drive just ripped a newly released ARROW video 4k.

It's simple, really. People post their MakeMKV dumps so that they can be processed by whoever is able to add them to the KeyDB. Pioneer drives do not lend themselves to that process. So while you can absolutely take advantage of keys that are already in the KeyDB, dumps from Pioneer drives in general do not aid those who are adding keys to the KeyDB in doing so.

TLDR: Pioneer drives can take advantage of keys already in the KeyDB, they just can't be used to help add new ones to it.

[nicholfd]

TLDR: Pioneer drives can take advantage of keys already in the KeyDB, they just can't be used to help add new ones to it.

Thanks for the good info.

I don't know enough about technical details about what the Pioneer drives can't be used to help derive new keys, but maybe the coming Pioneer flash/unlock will help that? Is the limitation software or hardware with the Pioneer drives? Do we know?

Thanks!

[keydb_helper]

I don't know enough about technical details about what the Pioneer drives can't be used to help derive new keys, but maybe the coming Pioneer flash/unlock will help that? Is the limitation software or hardware with the Pioneer drives? Do we know?

Any upcoming changes in Pioneer drive support will not improve the situation with regards to the public keydb. The limitation is not in the stock Pioneer software/firmware or hardware but is instead within the LibreDrive microcode.

The limitation is an intentional choice made by the MakeMKV team to discourage competitors from utilising LibreDrive by obfuscating disc metadata. Obfuscation is also employed by LibreDrive for LG/Asus drives but it is distinct from the Pioneer obfuscation.

The MakeMKV team is well within their rights to do this given their competitors history of stealing work without even a nod of attribution.

It is a shame that some really nice drives can’t be used to generate entries for the public keydb but at least compatible LG/Asus drives are still widely available at reasonable prices.

[tommik128]

Awesome news. That means there is still hope for my unopened still in the box Pioneer BDR-212EBK (bought in 2024) then read that all after 2022 were pretty much unflashable and kept it in the box and bought me a 2nd LG. Now I can get me another ICY-BoX

If you opened the box, the drive could have been with good old firmware already. This model comes from around 2021-22. I bought one in October '22 and it works right out of the box!

As far as Icybox, I don't know but these enclosures are actually very good and you can install 40x40x10mm 2pin fan to keep drive cool when ripping all those discs for hours (even Vantec NexStar DX does not feature a fan anymore!). And they even have rubber feet properly attached to the bottom (not just glued but actually in separate holes) something even Pioneer was not able to make on their external full sized drives...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365496048523

[BrianDW]

Yes, it enables LibreDrive out-of-the-box. Unfortunately, it is also very incompatible with KEYDB . However, it is still fine for ripping .

I don't understand the issue. I download the latest KEYDB before every rip, several times a week on average.
This new verbatim drive just ripped a newly released ARROW video 4k.

It's simple, really. People post their MakeMKV dumps so that they can be processed by whoever is able to add them to the KeyDB. Pioneer drives do not lend themselves to that process. So while you can absolutely take advantage of keys that are already in the KeyDB, dumps from Pioneer drives in general do not aid those who are adding keys to the KeyDB in doing so.

TLDR: Pioneer drives can take advantage of keys already in the KeyDB, they just can't be used to help add new ones to it.

Got it. It's too bad the best drives for making MKV files from UHD discs are not capable of providing the information required to make MKV files.
Regardless, I own several drives from different manufacturers and generating the needed files for KeyDB only takes minutes.