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I've have noticed something interesting recently that seems to be specific to discs with DTS:X. In every case with Dolby Atmos discs, MediaInfo consistently identifies the object-based metadata associated with the audio track like so:

Format : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID : A_TRUEHD
Duration : 1 h 58 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 3 810 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 7 158 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb

However, with DTS:X discs I see some inconsistencies. For some titles, it's clearly identified as an object-based track:

Format : DTS XLL X
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 1 h 48 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 531 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel(s)_Original : Object Based
ChannelLayout_Original : Object Based

For other titles, I see this, however, indicating that it's channel-based:

Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2 h 3 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 847 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : C L R LFE Lb Rb Lss Rss

In the latter case, all sources (and the BD cover) indicate the presence of DTS:X. I've checked MAkeMKV's contents carefully, so I'm pretty confident I have the correct (and usually the only lossless) track.

Is this just a case of inconsistent labelling and identification, or is the metadata somehow not making from the disc to MKV (seems unlikely)? Unfortunately, I do not have a way to truly test on the player side, since I haven't implemented immersive audio yet, but I wanted to make sure I'm future-proofed (as much as that's possible in this game).

Thanks!

awdspyder wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:35 pm

In the latter case, all sources (and the BD cover) indicate the presence of DTS:X.

Other than a BD cover's info being flawed, I don't know what you exactly mean with this.
Should you refer to MediaInfo, note that audio format DTS XLL indeed stands for channel based DTS-HD Master Audio. DTS XLL X (with the additional X) indicates object based DTS:X.

As for inconsistent labelling/ID-ing, can you name a disc for example?

Reading the title of your post, the difference between DTS:X and DTS-HD MA is not only metadata.
To be backwards compatible, DTS:X main part consists of a channel based DTS-HD Master Audio track. Together with DTS:X metadata, also object-assigned audio packets are added. Where obviously non-DTS:X encoders will just ignore this additional payload and will only process the base-track channels.

Other than a BD cover's info being flawed, I don't know what you exactly mean with this.

Sorry, let me provide some more specific info.

When examining discs that are expected to have DTS:X with MediaInfo, nearly all show the object-based info shown above. However, Bad Boys for Life is one example where the UHD cover, blu-ray.com db info, as well as my Oppo-203 feeding my Denon X3500h all indicate the primary audio track is DTS:X. When looking at the MediaInfo, however, the track shows as DTS XLL as listed above, and does not indicate object-based audio. Another example is Angry Birds 2 - which is what brought this to my attention.

I actually didn't think about the Denon info initially, and since posting confirmed that the MKV via Emby on the Shield feeding the Denon also displays DTS:X for both movies, so it seems like the DTS:X metadata is there, and not just the DTS-HD MA core.

I checked some other UHDs that are known to have DTS MA 7.1 and 5.1 tracks but NOT DTS:X - Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Die Hard, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, etc., and they all activate the DTS Neural:X upmixer as expected, as there's no DTS:X metadata.

Every other DTS:X title displays correctly in MediaInfo - from Animal House to Waterworld (shameless I know), but there seem to be a few titles that show as DTS XLL in the MediaInfo for some reason. They do seem to playback fine, and the metadata triggers the appropriate decoding, I'm just curious what the difference is.

To be backwards compatible, DTS:X main part consists of a channel based DTS-HD Master Audio track.

Yep, I'm aware, which of course also applies to the Atmos/True HD core.

Okay I understand now. Weird indeed. There seems something funky with the authoring of those discs.

Maybe it's no more than just a harmless flaw like a wrong codec-info header and MediaInfo goes by that. I doubt it would parse every audiostream for a few seconds, where you'd expect it recognising the extra data packets. Which clearly seem present.
Not entirely sure if it's possible, but I can imagine a player falsely showing a codec due to bad authoring. What I'd find harder to believe is your Denon syncing in on DTS:X while it would not be offered on input.

I realize this is an old post but I found it in my initial research of starting my journey to backing up my uhd collection.
Both the example movies you listed support dts x imax audio. Perhaps dts xll indicates the imax decoding?