The Fifth Element UHD/4K

[sgtblackice]

Dumps sent for the 4K UK retail release

[phileeny]

yep just got mine today

[fizban11]

All, I'm not sure where to post this for The Fifth Element 4K UHD (StudioCanal UK) version, but I need to start somewhere. I purchased after reading reviews that showed it had Dolby Vision in addition to the HDR10 on the US Version. The audio track for ATMOS is supposed to be the exact same as the 2017 US 20th Anniversary release, but I'm finding it to be different. I'm a little perplexed by this.

Initially, MakeMKV 1.15.3 shows both audio tracks to be the same for both discs:
Track information
Type: Audio
Name: Surround 7.1 (English)
Language: English
Codec: TrueHD Atmos
Channels: 8
Channel layout: 7.1
Sample rate: 48000
Bits per sample: 24
MKV Flags: Default

After ripping, MediaInfo for the UK StudioCanal version shows this:
Audio
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : MLP FBA
Format/Info: Meridian Lossless Packing FBA
Commercial name: Dolby TrueHD
Codec ID: A_TRUEHD
Duration: 2 h 6 min
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 3 611 kb/s
Maximum bit rate: 4 341 kb/s
Channel(s): 8 channels
Channel(s)_Original: 6 channels
ChannelLayout_Original: L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Bit depth: 24 bits
Compression mode: Lossless
Stream size: 3.20 GiB (4%)
Title: Surround 7.1
Language: English
Default: Yes
Forced: No
Original source medium: Blu-ray

The MediaInfo for the US Version shows this:
Audio #1
ID: 2
ID in the original source medium: 4352 (0x1100)
Format: MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info: Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name: Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID: A_TRUEHD
Duration: 2 h 5 min
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 5 666 kb/s
Maximum bit rate: 9 144 kb/s
Channel(s): 8 channels
Channel layout: L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Bit depth: 24 bits
Compression mode: Lossless
Stream size: 4.98 GiB (10%)
Title: Surround 7.1
Language: English
Default: Yes
Forced: No
Original source medium: Blu-ray
Number of dynamic objects: 11
Bed channel count: 1 channel
Bed channel configuration: LFE

PLEX then shows that there is a base 5.1 TrueHD for the UK Version, and a base 7.1 TrueHD for the US Version.

So, with the bitrates completely different and seemingly a 5.1 base vs. a 7.1 base, the audio is not the same. Am I crazy here?

[dcoke22]

Your mediaInfo for the UK version says it is a Dolby TrueHD audio track. For the US version it says Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

Similarly, a Dolby Atmos encoded Dolby TrueHD stream contains metadata to extract and place the objects in relevant positions.

It may be the case that the TrueHD portion is the same on both versions, but the Dolby Atmos positional stuff is in addition to the TrueHD data.

[shawnc22]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... st18175687

According to the user forums on there, the studio canal version encoded a completely new atmos track just this year, so no surprise there that the bitrate is different from the old us version.

[Trickyd-1]

I get the same as you for the UK version, just a plain old 7.1 THD.

Fancy de-muxing, raring and sending the US audio track to me via mega?

[shawnc22]

Have you guys tried just playing the file or the disk and see if your AVRs detect the 7.1 THD track as Atmos? The blu-ray forums did mention that it is using the latest version of the Atmos encoder so maybe mediainfo is just not picking it up. Also of note is that according to the listing at: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Fift ... ay/271846/, there is apparently both an atmos track and a normal 7.1 THD track. Maybe you guys might've been looking at the wrong track?

[fizban11]

Have you guys tried just playing the file or the disk and see if your AVRs detect the 7.1 THD track as Atmos? The blu-ray forums did mention that it is using the latest version of the Atmos encoder so maybe mediainfo is just not picking it up. Also of note is that according to the listing at: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Fift ... ay/271846/, there is apparently both an atmos track and a normal 7.1 THD track. Maybe you guys might've been looking at the wrong track?

I have. I only rip the best audio track and a stereo track for every movie. My Marantz AV8802A detects the StudioCanal version as 5.1 (no surround back channels) as the base and a 7.1 for the US version, but both play and are detected as ATMOS. The difference is the base TrueHD, 5.1 vs. 7.1. This is the same that PLEX sees and reports.

So, it can’t be just MediaINFO not detecting correctly. (I just updated to 20.09 for Win 10 64-bit and it still shows the same info) More than likely, it’s a new encoding process that neither PLEX, Marantz nor MediaINFO can read properly at the moment. Or, next best guess is that it was encoded as a 5.2.4 stream and not a 7.2.4 stream. Beats me?!

I followed the link above you pointed me toward in the Blu-ray.com forum and David M. there actually is an audio engineer who said he encoded the disc. I posted the same above to him in the forum. Hopefully he will respond and clear things up. MediaINFO has written me back and asked for a sample to analyze.

[Trickyd-1]

I see what has happening here.
The stream starts off as 7.1THD for the Studiocanal ident but then switches to atmos for the film.
Mediainfo is only picking up on the first part of the stream and correctly reporting the 7.1 discrete channels. If you use TSmuxer to chop out a minute sample from 5 minutes in then mediainfo reports the sample as atmos.

[fizban11]

I see what has happening here.
The stream starts off as 7.1THD for the Studiocanal ident but then switches to atmos for the film.
Mediainfo is only picking up on the first part of the stream and correctly reporting the 7.1 discrete channels. If you use TSmuxer to chop out a minute sample from 5 minutes in then mediainfo reports the sample as atmos.

You seemed to have solved this mystery! After you wrote, I trimmed the first 21s 56 ms from the beginning which had 5.1 TrueHD only. Now the movie starts army the first bass note of the space scene and both MediaINFO and PLEX report everything correctly. I appreciate the help.

Normally (for every movie I’ve bought and backed up) the video chapters of studios, previews, etc are not included. When there is a header, it’s always in the same audio track format. So, I’ve never encountered this before. I guess there is a first time for everything.

[Trickyd-1]

I don't think I've seen this before on a disc either.