www.makemkv.com

Darthjipsu wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:30 pm

My TV tells me that I receive 8bit RGB when using Nvidia Shield

Interesting. is it an OLED ? I wonder if that could matter.

lexyz wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:35 pm

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:27 pm

Spears & Munsil disc.
I see a red push even with the Vertex.
x700 default mode VS Shield RGB bt2020 default: https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/4942

Very close to what I see on my tv

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:27 pm

test pattern: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JURFyX ... sp=sharing

I can't tell there is any noticeable red push
Bravia internal Plex vs Shield Plex
Bravia's internal apps are brighter, so ignore brightness difference
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/4951

Finally

I can see clearly the problem with DV and Bravia Tvs

With DV through HDMI is more darkness than trough apps

What model have you?

I can't understand why Sony don't fix the problem

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:34 pm

Interesting. is it an OLED ? I wonder if that could matter.

Yes it's the OLED934 model
It's pretty strange

In the shield setup I have YCbCr 4:2:2 BT2020 DV Ready
When I read :
- DV Files my TV displays DV 8bit RVB
- HDR10 Files my TV displays HDR BT2020 8bit

but if I setup to YCbCr 4:2:0 BT2020 without DV
HDR10 Files my TV displays HDR BT2020 10bit


But I can only have info if source is from HDMI, so I have no clue about info while playing HDR10 or DV Files with InApp Philips

Darthjipsu wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:52 pm

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:34 pm

Interesting. is it an OLED ? I wonder if that could matter.

Yes it's the OLED934 model
It's pretty strange

In the shield setup I have YCbCr 4:2:2 BT2020 DV Ready
When I read :
- DV Files my TV displays DV 8bit RVB
- HDR10 Files my TV displays HDR BT2020 8bit

but if I setup to YCbCr 4:2:0 BT2020 without DV
HDR10 Files my TV displays HDR BT2020 10bit


But I can only have info if source is from HDMI, so I have no clue about info while playing HDR10 or DV Files with InApp Philips

8Bit RGB is normal for DV if your TV supports it, which looks like it does. Are you not also seeing the BT2020 tag next to 8Bit RGB when playing DV off the Shield?

shawnc22 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:55 pm

Darthjipsu wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:52 pm

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:34 pm

Interesting. is it an OLED ? I wonder if that could matter.

Yes it's the OLED934 model
It's pretty strange

In the shield setup I have YCbCr 4:2:2 BT2020 DV Ready
When I read :
- DV Files my TV displays DV 8bit RVB
- HDR10 Files my TV displays HDR BT2020 8bit

but if I setup to YCbCr 4:2:0 BT2020 without DV
HDR10 Files my TV displays HDR BT2020 10bit


But I can only have info if source is from HDMI, so I have no clue about info while playing HDR10 or DV Files with InApp Philips

8Bit RGB is normal for DV if your TV supports it, which looks like it does. Are you not also seeing the BT2020 tag next to 8Bit RGB when playing DV off the Shield?

Yes I did not specify but it's BT2020

I meant to mention this before but just an FYI, when playing these discs on my UB820, it is also showing RGB 8 bit BT.2020. And yet it has the correct color space.

SamuriHL wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:12 pm

I meant to mention this before but just an FYI, when playing these discs on my UB820, it is also showing RGB 8 bit BT.2020. And yet it has the correct color space.

Now I'm confused...
you once said on avsforum that you were getting LLDV out of the UB820. are you sure your Integral scaler wasn't set to RGB bt2020 ? would also explain why you didn't see a difference on the Spears demo.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-netwo ... st59652754

what's the default DV mode on the UB820 when the TV is capable of both format ?

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:07 pm

SamuriHL wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:53 pm

That's really bizarre. That's completely different than the results I saw. I'm not able to take screen shots to show it, but, the picture was identical on the SM benchmark demo between my UB820 and the Shield. And I was not using the Integral 2 to correct anything at that time. And yes, I do get the red push problem in other videos. That Doctor Sleep sample that shawnc22 posted, as an example, I compared with my LG internal player vs the Shield and definitely saw the problem. So I have no idea what the pattern is here.

The difference can be hard to see but if you compare a scene with a lot of red colors, it's more obvious.
like frame 5066

I just used that scene to compare close up and I'm not able to see it. Which isn't to suggest it's not there, simply that I'm able to see it. I don't have the camera equipment necessary to make even decent comparison pictures, so, I don't think I'm going to be a whole lot of help on this one. I'm of the opinion, that *for me*, if I'm unable to see it up close and personal in a frozen picture while flipping back and forth then in real world content that's movie I'm unlikely to notice the difference in most cases. Now the Doctor Sleep example is night and day for me and I can clearly see the issue there. Clearly I would like this issue corrected, regardless of whether I can detect it in real world content or not. The point of DV is to present the best possible picture quality and I want it to be as technically accurate as possible. Right now I don't trust the SHIELD with these UHD rips. Even if I can't materially see a difference, it's still bothersome. Especially given that I've only just begun to compare samples. While the SM benchmark UHD is a gold standard, it's not super indicative of real world content. It's more designed as a torture test for your playback chain.

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:34 pm

SamuriHL wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:12 pm

I meant to mention this before but just an FYI, when playing these discs on my UB820, it is also showing RGB 8 bit BT.2020. And yet it has the correct color space.

Now I'm confused...
you once said on avsforum that you were getting LLDV out of the UB820. are you sure your Integral scaler wasn't set to RGB bt2020 ? would also explain why you didn't see a difference on the Spears demo.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-netwo ... st59652754

what's the default DV mode on the UB820 when the TV is capable of both format ?

I was mistaken about that. It's always sending RGB 8 bit BT2020 for UHD discs. At least on my C8.

SamuriHL wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:37 pm

I was mistaken about that. It's always sending RGB 8 bit BT2020 for UHD discs. At least on my C8.

Did you compare your Shield with the C8 internal player? Because my x700(RGB no bt2020) is identical to my C8 internal player and using the vertex, the shield is identical to my x700.

internal C8 vs x700 RGB no bt2020
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/4954

RESET_9999 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:22 pm

SamuriHL wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:37 pm

I was mistaken about that. It's always sending RGB 8 bit BT2020 for UHD discs. At least on my C8.

Did you compare your Shield with the C8 internal player? Because my x700(RGB no bt2020) is identical to my C8 internal player and using the vertex, the shield is identical to my x700.

internal C8 vs x700 RGB no bt2020
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/4954

No I haven't, that's a good idea. I'll make an mp4 out of it and try that later.

Playing the mp4 on my LG internal player right now. Identical from what I can see to the UB820 which is to my eye identical to the SHIELD on the MKV without the Integral 2 scaling.

EDIT:

HURRAY! I found it. Finally. At 23 seconds during the mountain with cloud scene. Absolutely crystal clear red push in the clouds on the shield. Not there with the UB820 or the LG internal player. Maybe hurray was not exactly warranted. More like ****!!!! LOL But at least I can now confirm that yes, red push is there. That's without the scaling active on the Integral 2.

EDIT 2:

Enabling scaling has absolutely no impact on the issue whatsoever. Red push is still there either way. This frame absolutely shows the issue very clearly, and we can't fix it.

hepe9 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:51 pm

Finally

I can see clearly the problem with DV and Bravia Tvs

With DV through HDMI is more darkness than trough apps

What model have you?

I can't understand why Sony don't fix the problem

XF90
But actually this comparison is misleading.
I rarely use internal apps and didn't know Apps and HDMI has different picture settings within same Picture mode, including BFI level.
Comparison regarding brightness will be redone with equal settings

lexyz wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:14 am

hepe9 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:51 pm

Finally

I can see clearly the problem with DV and Bravia Tvs

With DV through HDMI is more darkness than trough apps

What model have you?

I can't understand why Sony don't fix the problem

XF90
But actually this comparison is misleading.
I rarely use internal apps and didn't know Apps and HDMI has different picture settings within same Picture mode, including BFI level.
Comparison regarding brightness will be redone with equal settings

The same Tv as me

DV trought HDMI in Bravia's is broken

The settings are the same, you can't do nothing to fixed it, the only thing you can do is send the images to Sony and post all over the forums, becouse I read many times the problem, but I never saw a comparison, and it is a shame.

Many users complained to Sony, but Sony doesn't do nothing, you have the images, you can do more damage than only with the text, thats a huge brightness difference

You can search all over the internet, this crap happend with 2018 model's, 2019 model's (here they introduced DV Normal and DV Bright, but that not fix the problem) and i pretty sure the problem persist in 2020 models

PD:I recommend you this sites to spread this crap;

https://www.reddit.com/r/bravia/
https://www.avforums.com/forums/sony-tvs-forum.113/
https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/Q ... view-notes

And of course, contact to Sony, everyone who contacted Sony was ignored, if they ignored you with the proof of the images put it too in the forums

SamuriHL wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:57 pm

Playing the mp4 on my LG internal player right now. Identical from what I can see to the UB820 which is to my eye identical to the SHIELD on the MKV without the Integral 2 scaling.

EDIT:

HURRAY! I found it. Finally. At 23 seconds during the mountain with cloud scene. Absolutely crystal clear red push in the clouds on the shield. Not there with the UB820 or the LG internal player. Maybe hurray was not exactly warranted. More like ****!!!! LOL But at least I can now confirm that yes, red push is there. That's without the scaling active on the Integral 2.

EDIT 2:

Enabling scaling has absolutely no impact on the issue whatsoever. Red push is still there either way. This frame absolutely shows the issue very clearly, and we can't fix it.

yep, the vertex is not able to fix the red push on dual-layer files but on my end, it does fix it completely with profile 5 files.
If you have some free time, could you test the color bars sample, please?
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18602&start=2745#p93833